Regarding the Cannibalism issue, (Information/Discussion)

[ShadowStormSimon]

NOTE: If you dont like certain words, or reading certain information can give you annoying/disturbing mental imagery, DO NOT read this topic.

I've (yet again) had the chance to discuss the Cannibalism Issue, which has been question to alot of different opinions.

To start off, I'm going to place general information, then we can work from there. I have split the topic into sections, for reference.

Index

1.1, Is it allowed on the server?

1.2, What exactly is Cannibalism?

1.3, So is it Cannibalism or not?

1.4, Why is it?

1.5, Why isnt it?

1.6, Why did you write up this topic?

Section 1:Information

1.1 Is it allowed on the server?

Yes it is on the server, and to prove my point:

Generally, any type of RP is allowed, AS LONG AS EVERY PARTICIPANT IS COMFORTABLE WITH IT. If it may not be appropriate in a public setting, please take it to a more private locale. On that note, everyone should keep in mind that if you are in visual range of another player (and visual range is actually increased on this server), then they will be able to see and hear all emotes and /says.

Quoted from CoTH Wiki, http://wiki.conquestofthehorde.com/Rules#Types_of_RP

1.2 What exactly is Cannibalism?

Many opinions have conflicted on this, the following is the definition of Cannibalism.

Cannibalism (from Spanish caníbal, in connection with cannibalism among the Antillean Caribs), also called anthropophagy (from Greek: ἄνθρωπος, anthropos, "human being"; and φαγειν, phagein, "to eat") is the act or practice of humans eating flesh of other humans. In zoology, the term "cannibalism" is extended to refer to any species consuming members of its own kind (see cannibalism (zoology)).

Quoted from Wikipedia.org, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism

1.3 So is it cannibalism or not?

This is where opinions conflict. So far i've only seen two, obviously being yes and no. The following are my summaries of these two opinions.

1.4 Why is it?

Some people think that it is Cannibalism because you are consuming one of the ten races, or that because it is a sentient being consuming another, hence cannibalism.

1.5 Why isnt it?

If you were to read the definition (refer to section 1.2 ), it says is the act or practice of humans eating flesh of other humans. Now, in World of Warcraft there are ten races (or to be exact, SPECIES), and if you were to continue reading the definition, you would notice, the term "cannibalism" is extended to refer to any species consuming members of its own kind.

Hence, cannibalism would be a Night Elf consuming a Night Elf, Human consuming human, Murloc consuming murloc, etc. etc, and not a Night Elf consuming a human, for example.

1.6 Why did you write up this topic?

To be able to "educate" members of the server, to stop all of these "running in a circle" discussions on Chat/Barrenschat, and to stop people calling Elaszun crazy <<

This is just my 2 cents in the whole issue, thank you for reading, now opinions?

[Hawk]

I totally agree with you, Syrenia. And I'm glad you posted this topic to save a lot of hassel in the Chat channel. (Y)

EDIT:: I don't know why people are saying a Night Elf eating a Human is cannabilsm, because it's not!

It's like saying Humans eating a Chicken is cannibilsm.

[kaiken]

How did a group of Night/Blood Elves end up being Cannibals?

[Grakor456]

Comparing a NE eating a Human to a Human eating a chicken is a ridiculous comparison. A Human is sentient, a chicken is not. That's not to say I either agree or disagree if it's cannibalism or not, it's an argument on semantics that's useless to get into and won't go anywhere. When someone calls Elaszun a cannibal, you know full well what they mean.

That said, the problem I've seen most have these characters is far from a case of semantics. It's RPing Night Elves and Blood Elves outside of their lore.

[ShadowStormSimon]

Ah, this was the part that I was going to post about, but forgot to.

The question is, Would Cannibalistic Blood or Night Elves be lore-breaking? and how?

I think, No?

What difference would a cannibalistic (we need a word to replace cannibalistic, since the "cannibalistic elves" of the server dont actually do cannibalism, probably Carnivorous is appropriate) Elf be to a vegeterian Human?
Just because the stereotypical Human eats meat, why shouldnt there be an exception that doesnt eat meat? And even though vegeterian humans are more common than Carnivorous Elves, why shouldnt there be?

[MrWeasel]

The big question is, Why does it matter if we call them Cannibal Elves?

[Grakor456]

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this comparison, because it doesn't make sense to me. You are comparing the consumption of an intelligent being to the consumption of unintelligent plants. This is not a logical comparison to make.

First off, in a semantics argument, whenever Blizzard has used the term "cannibalism" it generally refers to a sentient being eating another sentient being. The cannibalistic Trolls eat other intelligent races, but when the Darkspears gave up cannibalism, they stopped eating all other intelligent races, not just their own. Forsaken have "Cannibalize" which devours any undead or humanoid, not just humans. So we can dance around the dictionary definition all we want, but in Blizzard and Warcraft terms, cannibalism is an intelligent eating another intelligent.

Only reason I bring this up (because I still think it's silly to argue about) is because there is nothing shown that Elves have any inclination towards eating other intelligent races. In fact, everything points against it. Most races despise the concept, and the Trolls had to abandon this practice in order to join the Horde. A cannibalistic Night Elf would be a rarity to say the least, and considered outright insane by his or her fellows. Other quirks concerning these characters (such as being friends with Blood Elves) make the chances even more astronomical, and let's not go into how many numbers this has grown to.

Is it lore-*breaking*? I can't say that, because there's nothing saying in the lore that it could not ever happen. But it's twisting the lore by the arm in an extremely painful position, causing tears to stream down its face while it wails "UNCLE, UNCLE!" at the top of its lungs in the hopes that it will stop.

To suggest otherwise is rather silly.

[Nostra]

I am pretty sure carnivorous would be a good term, it simply means that they eat meat and/or are predatory (heh, predators eat meat not sure all meat eaters are predators though *smirk*).

Also, I am not going to say "yay" or "nay" only ask this; Why are they "cannibals/carnivorous/eaters of non-elf sentient beings"?

It just feels odd that they would just "Hey! You threw a bomb at me, we´re gonna eat ya arm!" (that´s not really how it went if I´ve understood it correcly but just to make a simple example) And seeing as the night elves´ society is very much based around the protection of the world, forests and said society it feels odd that any elf would get these kind of ideas, not impossible but... well, weird and probably not the most common of things.


Edit; Darn, seems Grakor and MrWeasel are too quick for me.

Edit 2; Just to make sure everyone understands, I am not stating I am for or against this, and I do not plan to.

Edit 3; Man, I was really slow with this post, everyone got the time to post before I was finished. This was supposed to be after Grakor´s first post.

[Hawk]

Haha, alright maybe that was a bad example, but you get the point.

[Delmure]

The only reason I see Elaszun being a cannibal is to add to the character itself, to make her a more differing (or original) character from others on the server. Elaszun could very well still be the same sexist, racist elf without eating flesh of any type. She could still have the psychological trauma of her parents being murdered, though could express it in less obvious ways. Early forms of Schizophrenia, for example.

Wilhelmina, as far as I know, had no taste for flesh whatsoever until she met Elaszun. In fact, as I do remember, she was a simple thief running about the tavern trying to pick pocket gold pouches that weren't there, or off of NPCs. I'm sure she's straightened up, though I don't remember any indication in the character of being 'Cannibalistic'. Whether that is the cunning of the player or in fact just an altering of character, I leave to her to explain.

A cannibalistic elf is just a way to be different from the rest of the elves. She eats people because her parents died. Could be worse, yeah? Could be a lot less controversial, too. That's Bolshe's choice, though.

Just my two cents. No offense meant.

[TwilightDisciple]

I'm about to get critical.

The big question is, Why does it matter if we call them Cannibal Elves?

My thoughts exactly. It is what it is. They have a reputation. People are gonna call them the big racist cannibal group.

If the player decides to adopt a socially unacceptable trait for their character, then the player themselves should be ready to handle the penalties that come with it. (being thought of as crazy, etc) Roleplaying as someone who has any form of sociopathic tendencies has it's price.

Elves in any lore being cannibals is pretty unconventional, and cannibals are taboo in IRL society, so people are going to talk.

I think the main problem is how it's all being handled, and not that there's a cannibal elf.

A racist being a cannibal isn't too far fetched. There have been instances of history of cannibal-like behavior among supremacists groups. By cannibal like, I don't mean eating, but reducing the bodies of the people they view as below them into a product. (The Nazis, for example, made soap, cloth, and lampshades from their victim's fat, hair, and skin.)

My main issue on the whole the cannibal elf thing is that it feels like a convenient plot device to make the character stand out more instead of something challenging to work and weave with.

[Sersay]

I do wonder why the player in question hasint said a word on this. (And yes, I mean Bloshe.)

[Nostra]

I do wonder why the player in question hasint said a word on this. (And yes, I mean Bloshe.)

Could be busy, could just not want to get involved with the discussion at the moment. Could be some other reason.

And after all ShadowStormSimon is the one who brought this up, Bolshe might just not want to "deal" with it in this way or have it public at all.

[Grakor456]

To be fair, I have not seen him log into the forums yet since this thread was created. Nor is this thread all about him, it was never intended that way.

[Genekitty]

Not to be inappropriate, but I'm sure Bolshe will have something to say when he returns from school. He's busy. That is all. *leaves*