Invisible NPCs and -you-.

[Wuvvums]

Just a quick question.

So it's definitely not okay to use invisi-NPCs to win fights and get a upper hand. But is it okay for them to break up fights and maintain order in a specific area?

[Piroska]

So it's definitely not okay to use invisi-NPCs to win fights and get a upper hand. But is it okay for them to break up fights and maintain order in a specific area?

My gut feeling on this matter is no, Wuvvums. The problem with taking the initiative to break up fights and maintaining order is that it still directly affects other players and their ability to roleplay. The decision to do so is probably warranted, but it's still assuming too much authority over the situation and it may directly impact other players.

There's also the fact that, invariably, someone could use these NPCs to their advantage rather than to, say, prevent an unpleasant situation from escalating. An individual could use NPCs to interrupt a fight that he would potentially lose.

The only time that I would feel that there would be no issues is if all parties agree to having those NPCs appear. An example of this would be if two players had gotten into a tavern brawl that tumbled out into the street. It could be fun and add a new dimension to the roleplay if other characters (PC or NPC) appeared to interrupt the fight. If both players consent to this, then no one's ability to roleplay is impeded. If both do not, it would essentially be utilizing an outside force to meta and control the situation.

Having been gone for a while I'm not sure if the policy remains, but it used to be that you could page a GM to assume control of NPCs for this express reason, in case something got out of hand. I performed that role a couple of times.

[Jonoth]

As a general rule, agreeing with KageAcuma, if I can get a player to fill the role I prefer doing that. In my short time at the helm of Axestorm Smithing, I made it a point to hire a group of guards from the player base. Hell, I had more guards than smiths, to the point where Musaithe was promoted to Captain of the Guards XD Some of my favorite RP with the group was interacting with the guard characters.

Point being, if I have regular IC contact with a character, I prefer it to be a player. In the case of armies or other large groups, I think it's fine to say they exist even though you can't see them, as per how Piroska described how the Regiment was a large organization, and the guild was just a group. Hell, we do this now with the Argent Crusade, where we know we aren't the entirety of the group, but just a small company headed by Krilari.

In trying to create The Bloodpaw, I purposely left the crew small, hoping that I could fill the roles with all player characters, but since it never filled up I usually refer to there being a crew (and a ship for that matter) that doesn't necessarily exist.

[Zenethen]

I personally use Invisible NPCs for events, and I try my hardest to -only- use them for events, as I myself see them as an annoying little thing that can interrupt and impede roleplay and other players. One instance is a late happening, which I will not mention names. The Invisible NPC Soldiers of a Military Organization led by one of my characters were apparently being used by someone else in the proximity of their location as guards to reprimand the other player, as they had knowledge (from me) of their being there. Obviously, both sides complained towards me about various things, and I dismissed it by heading in there with one of my anonymous characters and -personally- controlling the nondescript NPC's Captain, and finding a -peaceful- resolution to this issue.

In other words, I believe Invisible NPCs should be left to events and other such things like that, or if a bodyguard/anything else is needed as necessary, make it so that they are one of those simple 'one-hit-one-kill' Invisible NPCs, so that the affected player's roleplay is not... Well, Affected.

Simple Company Members, Event Soldiers, Occasional ETK Bodyguards, etc. Simple stuff, and simple stuff alone.

[flammos200]

I sometimes use invisible NPCs which are actually characters that I have but don't bother with dual-boxing, as well as background NPCs from storylines. Questgivers(Not actual in-game questgivers. But rather, background made-up characters) and the like.

For instance, I use Laranor as a background character, as well as Thaura. The former's a therapist and occasional companion to the Party(Of PCs), and the latter's usually a Questgiver-type, giving the PC Party assignments, and occasionally joining them as a temporary companion.

I'm a huge fan of long, structured storylines with tens of characters, each with their own names, families, wants, likes, dislikes, individual personality and so on, so minor NPC characters that help with the plot are essential. Basically, the NPCs you encounter throughout RPGs.

That's not to say that they're somehow in the service of the PCs, outside the context of nobility or military command, of course. That would be stupid, and a breach of "No amassing an NPC army" unwritten rule. I remember talking about it when Thaura got approved.

So, yeah. As long as no one is affected without consent, everything is fine, in my point of view. Just remember good old Respect.

[Cressy]

I think the whole idea is that you can have them..but within reason. I have had body guards for Ammasrian, my old slaver, for the purpose of not being killed before the storyline ended and because, weelll, logically he had one.

Anyways, no armies, use common sense on what is appropriate and the like.

[c0rzilla]

I think, here, "army" might mean like, a mercenary army. No bigger than any mercenary player guild. Ten to twenty people.

And, again, this "army" should stay put in events run by the appropriate player, if used at all.

[Rigley]

Aye, I'd expect it to mean that c0r, though even still (as you said) they should be constrained to events. Even having half of that number with you in regular RP would be enough to pummel down any other character you run across.

Unless we all start creating a five-man posse to follow everyone around.

But that would just start getting silly!

[Piroska]

Unless we all start creating a five-man posse to follow everyone around.

I'm going to ignore everything else that you posted and take this as confirmation that we can start doing just that. Huzzah!

[flammos200]

Unless we all start creating a five-man posse to follow everyone around.

I'm going to ignore everything else that you posted and take this as confirmation that we can start doing just that. Huzzah!

Seems like Granado Esparda, or however that MMORPG's name was spelled. Basically, you controlled three characters at a time. I think Pirates of the Burning Sea does the same thing. Seems to be a theme with naval games.

Anyhow, I'm not a very big fan of having a five-man band with you, nor more than that, unless the situation makes sense(Like faction troop movements or such). I tend to focus on character development and interaction, and it's harder to track when it's between many characters at a time. Not to mention that my emotes are already kilometers long. This would just make me spew out walls of text.

And yes, I am kidding. Totally.
..or am I?

[ThePharaoh]

I think as long as they don't inhibit RP or give someone an unreasonable advantage they're alright. The purpose of the NPC to me is to be used as a story mechanic. Vendors, servents, waiters, or any anonymous civilian. I think guards of a guild, Noble house or something player ordained is alright because no one wants to Rp the dude who walks back and forth all day. Or stands by the door with a sword. Its boring. I don't think they should be used to attack, but if one or two people enter a hide out of an established organization I think IC NPCs can be used to Defend.

Like the Original Catacombs was planning to be raided by a handfull of heroes when ICly the catacombs housed a ridiculously large amount of ghouls, dks, necromancers, warlocks, and the like. There were probably ten to fifteen consistent characters there interchangeably give or take. Now in this case I'd say NPC's smash player chars attack everytime no question.

But if said 10 -15 give or take said "We're taking the catacombs crew to take over azeroth." I'd call shenanigans.

[JosieNoelle]

Very interesting topic, Reigen!

I have only utilized a single 'invisible' NPC in my entire time of playing and/or building/hosting RPGs (and we're looking at 14 years of history.)

Funny enough, the character I chose to employ this with is Bria Indignus, who happens to be one of my puppets on this server. She possesses a small, grey dove in a gilded cage. The pet exists solely for the purpose of furthering a particular aspect of her storyline, which I'll refrain from blabbing here.

In my opinion, temperance and moderation is the rule. I hate decks being stacked. There are better alternatives! Why fabricate an invisible squire/bodyguard/etc. when you have a whole forum dedicated to calling upon players to form cooperative storylines ahead of time? Find a player to fill that role and you have added to the community in a way that can visibly be measured.

I am probably more guilty of creating inanimate objects than anything! In fact....I wonder at the consensus concerning people possessing items which may or may not fit thematically into the game world and have no equivalent already available in a physical manner...?

[McKnighter]

I want to necro this.

I've been seeing players command or be apart of invisible armies, which hint they are in the hundreds in numbers, having siege weapons and such.

I'm not quite sure what's the limit at this point. I'm trying to stay away from using names... I've seen a noble command a posse of twenty for an event, which was fine considering we were assaulting a troll village and some fodder would've helped solve the 'true' number of trolls there.

Though, I've noticed others have high military ranks in some military guilds(Above Captain) that make it seem they're leading entire companies or regiments. That's a lot of men! Granted I haven't seen any cases of them being used against players, but that seems a bit weird that you can say you lead an army. The highest ranking character I have is Krian and he only oversees a small platoon(twenty max!) of Blood Knights(He is a Master and the platoon ranges from actual players to placement/fodder NPC's).

So, what is the limit of player's command? How much is too much?

[muhaha8]

I think it's logical for some to have them (I usually RP Aulten as having a few (no more than five, though the exact number depends) guards, atop his servants), though there's a point where it just seems silly. Atop that, are these people you speak of holding such high command profiled as Special Profiles, McKnub? If not, then there's a serious problem there.

[Rowgen]

My Blademaster Kag'rin commands nothing but roughly twenty men, the approximate number of players in the Deadeye Watchers. I feel that's enough.

Then again, I have Malachai who is second-in-command of the Black Harvest.

EDIT: . . . I'd like to note that neither make use of NPCs, though. Huh.