Invisible NPCs and -you-.

[Reigen]

Hello my dear COTHians. After talking with our supreme overlord, I have been suggested to create a topic here to gather opinions. As the title suggests, this has something to do with the invisible NPCs that people tend to use. Some examples would be invisible maids, guards around their home, businesses and armies.

There is not really a firm stance about what is and is not allowed and to what extent. Such a thing can be rather confusing for others who are new. My question is what would be considered fine and what would be over-doing it?

Should NPC armies be allowed? NPC bodyguards? Do nobles have access to more invisible NPCs, should they be the only one allowed to do so? A unified stance about it would be amazing to have so that everyone has a guideline to follow about.

Opinions would be wonderful! Don't need to answer my questions up there, as they were more suggestions on what could be discussed.[/size]

[c0rzilla]

Maids, butlers, and guards at a home or establishment seem fine to me. As far as "armies" go, I would keep those to events run by the house, or their friends. If an event is run by a GM, or someone else, perhaps one bodyguard NPC is permissible. I believe Nobles would have access to more NPCs, as they tend to hire lots of people. Not sure what a solid number would be, though.

[Kenshiro]

I wouldn't say armies. I mean, how would you be able to RP out an army behind you, right?

I wouldn't mind a bodyguard or squire or something, if they were NPCs. I mean, it ain't the end of the world. No more than three at a time, I think. It would get far too confusing and/or OP. Especially is you show up to an event with an army.

[Zarquon]

I have an Approved Noble but I have never used invisible NPCs before; I personally do not see a need yet. It simply makes me awkward trying to think up of some half-plus-six reason to explain OOC-ly to people that I totally have a bunch of guards that they can't see that can beat them down. Like a very naked and grotesque power grab over someone. Hence my personal refrain from doing thus.

I have also witnessed drama arising where people simply find such an idea ludicrous, especially when someone gives a Character Warning on another with invisible NPCs, which feels rather queer. And of course, why can 'A' claim to have invisible NPCs and 'B' can't?

Playing the devil's advocate to my own disdain, however, I note that Nobles should have certain leeway, I believe, in this particular area. They theoretically have an IC claim to titles, holdings and wealth, yet people who do not have approved noble profiles do so as well. I think that that's fine, but it does put forth the question of why nobles even need special profiles in the first place when it is, practically speaking, entirely pointless.

[Psychyn]

Invisible NPC's.. I rarely use them admittedly. Most I do is emote for a current (actual in-game NPC, such as a bartender) and throw out a response to my own actions. However, I don't see it as a problem when people do use them around me.

Depending the situation ; I'd say, every invisible NPC is allowed as long as there's no direct combat (PvP) bonus. When you end up in a fight, and your previous two bodyguards have been acting along ; Discuss it with the other person, if they say no ; Simply go with that. Send the bodyguards off for a moment and go "Watch the big boss do it." style on whoever you are fighting, get them enchained/impaired some-way somehow or just break the fight off. (For PvE.. I can imagine it being much less of an issue, as those things tend to get mentioned long before the event starts.)

As for an actual army.. Can't say, never saw it happen.

Maids.. cooks, servants, lackeys, slaves, shoe polishers, delivery boys/girls, hatters, cigar holders, caddies or whatever you can imagine.. Sure thing, why not? ^.~

[Wuvvums]

I think the context really matters. If it's supposed to be like someone's IC turf (home or place of business) and they have a couple of guards, I think that'd be fine. I used invisible NPCs before for like my business or some events.

Invisible NPCs that are guards should be used to maintain peace, but should not necessarily be allowed to use character warnings. This should at least stop people from trying to mess with others in their own turf. I know there have been instances where someone would try to give character warnings to someone in their own home and that seems unreasonable to have to deal with character warnings in an otherwise civil place. Should character warnings really be applied in your own house? It would pretty much make rp spots like GMI or the Alterac Manor as unprotected as the open jungles of STV.

[Saiyuu]

I think it should be valid mostly for "fixed" holds. For instance... The crew of a ship. The workers of an office. The servants of a household. And so it goes. As far as army/bodyguards NPCs go, those would be better if allowed only in certain instances (events, for example), since in more than one case there's been players that used invisible NPCs to have advantage or safeguard for certain situations (ex: Random warlock has a lot of bodyguards. Attacking player can't hope to win against so many numbers).

[Xigo]

If someone's using guards to get a 'heads up' in a fight, that's a no no.

If someone insists 'well my invisible bodyguard would help me fight', then sure. But you share the same health bar. No advantages because of something like that.

Otherwise as long as someone's NPCs don't start effecting other people's roleplay in a rude manner (my personal army is sieging your home, there is nothing you can do about this) then I'm pretty cool with it.

People with control over these inviso-NPCs though, should probably have a special profile.

[Psychyn]

People with control over these inviso-NPCs though, should probably have a special profile.

Can't agree there. What stops anyone from walking into any town/city and hire a couple of thugs, bodyguards and so on? Cities and towns are a big place, players offer their services but I can imagine NPC's as well.

Seems (to me) unnecessary to control, not to mention hard to do in reality. Warn/kick/possible-ban everyone who walks around without a special profile, that uses invisible NPC's?

The only way I'd see a special profile making sense to said Invisible NPC's if they would get additional strengths and such in fights, which is not the way I (personally) would like to see them. ^^ (Though, apparently some NPC's are already used that way. Can't say, never saw it myself.)

[Piroska]

When The Regiment was around, we had dozens of NPCs that existed within the organization. It made sense; we were a military organization and we justified the small numbers in the guild by saying that they were a smaller, more elite group within The Regiment.

The existence of numerous other NPCs (other soldiers, some NCOs, armorers, even a stablemaster who gave new recruits their mounts) was for two reasons:

1. It was logical. An army cannot exist with a dozen people alone. There had to be more people for it to be grounded in the world, strictly from a logistical standpoint.
   
2. It provided stimulus for roleplay. New recruits were invited to 'visit' the stablemaster. They could then share their own stories regarding interactions with known NPCs. Occasionally, established NPCs would make special appearances in events, further breathing life into them.

One of the eventual goals for the wiki pages was to create pseudo-profiles for these characters, so that others within The Regiment could effectively 'borrow' these NPCs for their own roleplay. It made sense, since our characters were most likely interacting with many of them, often on a daily basis.

If the NPCs are utilized to foster roleplay, I have zero qualms. Especially when it comes to reoccurring characters; they help provide depth to roleplay and can be fun -- especially when they become so well-known that they exist within their own right.

If the NPCs are utilized to somehow gain an upperhand against other player, I have many problems. Just like most player-driven things, whatever is done cannot unfairly affect other players. That's the point at which things need to be stopped or changed.

[Duraza]

Yeah, I've definitely used invisible npcs for close to the same reason as Piroska. Normally, they'd be like members/allies to my characters that would exist only for the purpose of events (though on the occasion communication as well)... Because honestly, unless its a capture event, it's no fun for either side if its like a 2 on 10 fight (And no one would appreciate it if I were suddenly OP enough to take on 10...). So yeah, often times I'll pull random NPCs (don't know if you'd call it an army or not...) just so there's something else to be attacking players. They normally have less health than everyone else and end up dying anyways.

But yeah, my general stance on this would be so long as its there to foster RP I don't see a problem with it.

[McKnighter]

I just trend to dual or triple box if I need a certain character to have other lowly workers or perhaps a bodyguard. Nothing really more.

As long as you are not trying to have invisible NPC"s helping you kill people and otherwise, I don't see any wrong behind it.

[Kage]

Well if your going to have any sort of NPC's I'd suggest staying away from bodyguards for multiple reasons. One, as someone said above (sorry for not quoting) it's kinda odd to have an invisible guy walking around behind you that can (And with some people will) beat you up. And another, why not have someone actually be the bodyguard? Mind you if you don't have anyone who can be on when you are it would make sense to have the NPC, but if you could have someone, try and get them. I've had some interesting RP's in the past being a bodyguard, and in one of them I actually failed. It does provide some sort of living aspect, and if it can walk around without having to be controlled, and it can have it's own personality which you don't have to create yourself.

So yeah, try to get someone else to be your bodyguard before you start rolling out the NPC's.

[Rigley]

I've got... two issues with invisible NPCs, and that's about it. I personally would tell someone off if said NPC was being used as
-A faction guard that has sway in the city.
-A NPC or multiple NPCs which are being used to attack and especially if used to kill players.

Essentially so long as people aren't being struck down by Rigley and his roving band of Gnome Divers then we're fine.

[Piroska]

My litmus test for when going forward with things like this is simple:

1. Does it foster roleplay?
   • If yes, proceed to 2.
     
   • If no, why the hell are you doing it?
2. Does it impede on other's roleplay?
   • If yes, reconsider your idea or seek insight from staff.
     
   • If no, you're probably good to go!