Rigley Rambles: On .addrp and Profiles

[Harmonic]

The thing holding that back though, is I think that it feels in general that you -have- to post a whole novel just to get an approved profile currently. Thats just the jive I felt looking over the profiles when returning. Thats...an issue.

Misconception is rife among those that haven't learned better. It's all very intimidating.

I'll cite Grakor being an avatar of terror over the span of several years, for no reason other than a lack of most anyone trying to get to know him.

...The profile system requires approximately ten lines of personality and history.

Exempli gratia, your post (plus quote) satisfies that minimum.

...

Furthermore, if you don't have much to tell on what they've done, you could always focus on who they are as a person. This isn't the place for this, is it?

In defense of popular opinion, though, minimalist profiles are discouraged and (in my opinion) rightly so.

This is actually something that was debated before.

We haven't heard word on it either... last I knew it was "don't do it" but it's still happening here and there, although to a lesser degree.

Edit: To be clear, I meant the profiles being scrutinized in extreme detail for approval.

Edit 2: I don't know what this topic is about anymore. I'm going to avoid posting, as it's starting to go a bit south... it seems to me there's some stuff for the GM's and admins to talk over though, otherwise these topics will probably remain.

I think we need some firm-line answers as to what's expected with profiles, tokens... and how it's going to be handled. It's my opinion that this is needed, but, still that's something that's pretty hard -not- to see considering.

[Piroska]

The two week rule does boggle me too, I'll admit.

Having read pretty much every profile that has been approved since I returned, it appears that a one (not two) week rule is being enforced. The vast majority of profiles that get placed on the forums are approved within forty-eight hours (many of them before day's end). The only time that profiles take longer is when they require further scrutiny, such as when pursuing unconventional character ideas or borrowing from existing universes that are not within the Warcraft realm.

[Aadora]

Here is something else to think about.

You can't even apply for Gruntship until you have been around for a month.

I don't think people would enjoy their time here as much as they do now, if they had to grind just for a good looking set for that following month.... and then even for a while after that, only have .add available to one character.

[Rigley]

It's been considered-- and honestly not sure what more I can tell you other than that many of us had to deal with this previously. But I could argue that as a good thing-- it's hard to really pin. I don't like that some people say they cannot RP without X item. I personally played Rigley as just a guy with goggles and some normal gear before I hit grunt.

I just don't feel that the restriction should be something which would be so unbearable.

Again, understand that this isn't necessarily the reflection of the GM team as a whole. In fact I know one member is directly opposed to this idea. And even then, nothing may come of it.

[ImagenAshyun]

I'll be frank, I skimmed most of the replies. I'll be speaking directly to the main post.

I can't remember if it was Kretol or Grakor who said this, but one of them mentioned a concern with profiles prior to the restart last year--people wrote profiles only so that they can get in-game gold. Otherwise, profiles just sat in the wiki and said character collected dust, never to be touched again, because the player just transferred gold from that one character to the main one.

I'm not sure if players now still do this, but the fact remains: regardless if you make profiling required or just outright important, people will abuse the system for self-gain. This is actually why, being the altoholic I was (and still am) hardly wrote profiles--I didn't want to look like I was abusing the system.

Nowadays (since obtaining IG Gold is no longer an issue), I don't write profiles so I can give the Forum Helpers a peace of mind while they work on other player profiles that are important first.

I read about "Profile to Play" suggestion from Rensin and Wuvvums' level-requirement for .addrp. Both look really appealing to me, but pulling this off can be difficult. I can't think of any other solution, at least at the moment.

[Wuvvums]

Here is something else to think about.

You can't even apply for Gruntship until you have been around for a month.

I don't think people would enjoy their time here as much as they do now, if they had to grind just for a good looking set for that following month.... and then even for a while after that, only have .add available to one character.

I really don't want to be the "back in my day" type of person but it has to be pointed out that everyone before the server core change put up with this, and we still managed rather well. Some of the starting gear actually looked rather nice, and personally even after I got silver tokens I didn't even know what to get so I settled with what I had on at the time.

It can be done and it's not so bad to be a month without all the perks that 80s get. It's a natural part of starting out on the server.

[Aadora]

I read about "Profile to Play" suggestion from Rensin and Wuvvums' level-requirement for .addrp. Both look really appealing to me, but pulling this off can be difficult. I can't think of any other solution, at least at the moment.

I'm afraid that if anything like this was done, people would still only be making profiles for the sake of being able to play/getting gear.

I think what we are wanting is for profiles to be important and mean something.

But if you make it required to have one to play, or if you make a level requirement for .addrp, then you would only be changing that OOC reason that people make profiles.

I think what we want is IC importance of profiles...

Limiting or unlimiting OOC things won't change that.

Just what I think.

[Rigley]

I'd honestly be quite fine with people making profiles for X reason. We can't -make- you have value in profiles, because that's a subjective thing.

There... is no way profiles can be ICly important. They're an OOC post made on an OOC thread, posted over to an OOC wiki. They are important OOC, not IC. And that's why we want them to be made.

[Harmonic]

Profile to Play was a joke, haha!

Honestly, I think in order for things to work, there needs to be a bit more outline to the way profiles are done, too. Do we want them to be x-length, or xx-length? What information is needed? Is it necessary to ask people to add things in to profiles, or are we going on length?

These are all questions that don't have answers, or at least that have "answers" that are simply interpretations.

[Aadora]

I'd honestly be quite fine with people making profiles for X reason. We can't -make- you have value in profiles, because that's a subjective thing.

There... is no way profiles can be ICly important. They're an OOC post made on an OOC thread, posted over to an OOC wiki. They are important OOC, not IC. And that's why we want them to be made.

I noticed you used OOC in the same sentence 3 times, which I take it as you were trying to push that point... but don't forget that profiles are IC information. That which is IN a profile is not OOC. It defines who the character is IC.

If they are not important for IC purposes, then why do they exist at all on a RP server?

[Loxmardin]

Moreso to regulate the lore OOCly than anything else, Aadora.

[Grakor456]

I noticed you used OOC in the same sentence 3 times, which I take it as you were trying to push that point... but don't forget that profiles are IC information. That which is IN a profile is not OOC. It defines who the character is IC.

If they are not important for IC purposes, then why do they exist at all on a RP server?

I think there's confusion as to what you're arguing for and why you're arguing for it. Perhaps you could rephrase your points for clarity?

Also, I'll talk to Kretol and determine with the "waiting period" between profiles is still necessary. We want to discourage the idea of using profiles to get gold (both OOC and IC) for other characters as much as possible, but I don't think the profile waiting period was instituted for that particular reason.

[Rigley]

If they are not important for IC purposes, then why do they exist at all on a RP server?

I'm losing the question here.

I think what we want is IC importance of profiles...

Limiting or unlimiting OOC things won't change that.

See, profiles are important OOC. It lets us know that characters are in-line with lore. They are not important OOC, because I do not imagine many people actually check others profiles, nor is any distinction is made -ICly- between a profiled and non-profiled character.

They contain IC material. This is true. It is important because it shows the character has a fleshed out history, and that is why we need to be able to read it. It is not important past that purpose when you get into RP though.

[McKnighter]

Here is something else to think about.

You can't even apply for Gruntship until you have been around for a month.

I don't think people would enjoy their time here as much as they do now, if they had to grind just for a good looking set for that following month.... and then even for a while after that, only have .add available to one character.

It's to weed out the weak. I don't think we should touch this. I remember being a peon and I joined the Crimson Templers. Me being a total nub and them being among the best players I've been around, it was a very good experience. Not to mention my glee when I was finally a grunt. There's no need to change it.

[flammos200]

I just figured we could outright lock a character if we felt it didn't fit within the lore.

You can; It has been done before. And the unlock came with Kretol's okay and a full re-profiling(Since the character was Approved).

---

In the end, giving .addrpitem a level requirement would be nice. Really nice. It'd provide further incentive for people to profile their characters - and profiling chars is -fun-. Let no one tell you any different. I have a blast(admittedly, it takes me ~15-20 minutes to put together a Profile I deem interesting enough to be worth a character) doin' 'em.

But yeah. Back in my day™, you had to get gear the old-fashioned way or have it brought by Silver Tokens(Which I still want back, as it was an awesome system).

I can't say one path is better than another, though. I mean, I like how we are now. I just wish Character Profiles were given more weight, y'know? I'd like them to mean something more.

Once upon a time, I remember making a whole song and dance IC about getting gear via Silver Tokens, with characters striving through challenges and storylines to obtain their respective suits of armor and weaponry. And the best part? Most of the time, you could raid in it too! And make even more money for even more Silver Tokens! I think I'm one of the minority that enjoyed the thing Kretol had set up so that high-level mobs give high amounts of coin and think farming giants in ICC was fun. I liked playing the game once in a while between arpee sessions. Ah, how times have changed. /nostalgiafaise.

But I'll leave you on that note. Character Profiles should mean a little more. Some incentive would be very nice. I'm afraid I've no solution as to how to bring forth such motivation.

Edit: D'awwww, McKnub! I remember my own Gruntship. Hawk approved it. It was a day so filled with excitement! And Cressy then filled my very first Level 'n Silver Token ticket. I remember being in the Barrens, waiting for a friend to show up. Gods, such times...