DKs can no longer summon their armor

[Reigen]

Flash-transmutation. That work?

I've always viewed transmutation as something that requires a lot of time and effort and isn't Just something you can do on the fly, but that's Just me.

And considering Xigo said that the shadow realm isn't a storage/purse thingy, I would think the same rules apply for any class that uses shadow. [I could be wrong!]

[Dae]

I understand all that. My question was more along the lines of Shadow priests that are quite familiar with the Shadow realm pulling out specific items at any time. Seems a minor thing. It obviously can be abused, like all magic, but would such be okay within reason?

Also : How about a mage making simple cloth into heavily reinforced cloth. Flash-transmutation. That work?

Personally, I don't think that would be reasonable ICly.
Well...
Maybe, in some situations it wouldn't be so bad. If the Shadow realm is a sort of mirror world and a character had strong connections with it, I wouldn't mind their having something they can carry normally, like a bag or a magic staff, attached to their person in said alternate plane. Then it would just be a matter of phasing it to and from dimensions.
I don't know if there's any lore to support or blatantly disprove that (I don't know much about shadow priests) but if a character still faced consequences in carrying said possessions and if common sense wasn't abused by someones' use of it, I wouldn't mind.

But Death Knights doing that with their armor? I don't think so. Unless I'm missing some huge detail, Death Knights aren't scholars exploring all the potential uses of Shadow. They're shock troopers, and all their abilities are designed to make them more effective soldiers. I don't really think "make the scary armor and giant sword that makes people fear them more" is going to be in their skill set. All these abilities are powered by runes and ruinic power, and while they are spells, I don't think the flexibility and control would be on the same level as a true caster class.

The Deathcharger is a separate entity that probably travels through shadow of its own volition, and Death Gates can only go to the Ebon Hold, which seems to me to have some kind of magic stuff that empowers Death Knights specifically when they're connected to it somehow. (Dominion over Archerus?) At least, other than general balance reasons OoCly, I suspect that the Death Gate ability is powered in part by the Ebon Hold itself, which would explain why DKs can't teleport like mages can to just anywhere.

[Kage]

Flash-transmutation. That work?

Transmutation? I think I had a thread that talked about alchemy transmutation.

[Aadora]

Or perhaps that is the missing detail. That the armor is always on them in the shadow realm. If you are in the shadow realm it is like there is a walking suit of armor there. By some magical link the armor acts as if there is someone there wearing it, so that when the DK summons it, it just fades into the normal realm and is already in place. I don't know...

[Echo]

That actually sounds like it might work. Perhaps the Death Knights soul is resonant with the shadow realm, and the armor is in place around that echo of them within the alternate reality. Then when the Death knight summons their armor, what happens is the armor is already upon their body via their spirit, but is manifested into reality through the death knights summons.

However I still find that as unnecessary. If I were to make a Death Knight, he would be a person who, by the very nature of his existence, is never asleep or unarmored, for the dead do not rest easy, if at all.

[Aphetoros]

I can understand it better if it was a class like a warmage (which would be like a Warrior using magic to strengthen his physical attacks, not to be confused with battlemage which is a mage using purely magic to attack) because then you might make the excuse of not actually teleporting your armor, but rather using magic to make your simple clothes into the more sturdy armor you need. Even that however is a stretch in my oppinion.

Well, those two things aren't exactly right.
http://www.wowpedia.org/Warmage
http://www.wowpedia.org/Battle_mage

Also, it's not a stretch to make your clothes into more sturdy armor because of spells like mage armor, frost armor, molten armor, etc. Warmagi use special battlemagics that do things like disorient targets, weaken them, steal buffs, lots of AoEs if I remember right, from the books. Battle-mages are... a lot like these guys.

But, irrelevant.

...I'll edit my post as I finish reading the thread, xD.

That actually sounds like it might work. Perhaps the Death Knights soul is resonant with the shadow realm, and the armor is in place around that echo of them within the alternate reality. Then when the Death knight summons their armor, what happens is the armor is already upon their body via their spirit, but is manifested into reality through the death knights summons.

However I still find that as unnecessary. If I were to make a Death Knight, he would be a person who, by the very nature of his existence, is never asleep or unarmored, for the dead do not rest easy, if at all.

Okay, so I don't think we're up for makin' Le Fanon about 'em here, however cool it might seem. Since we don't gots no lore ta suppurt et, zhere innint anytin' ta do.
No death knights, to my knowledge, have ever summoned their armor to them. Weapons are acceptable in my book, because of the way dancing rune weapon works. Hey, maybe we can compromise. You can summon one piece of your armor to your hand at a time, but you still have to put it on, haha

[ThePharaoh]

I. Do this but it was introduced to me by the others. I even questioned its possibility but then someone directed me to the questchain we have to play where the people you have to kill summon theirs out of nowhere. There isn't a chest or anything they go to so that person interpreted as summoning. As always ill comply but this doesn't seem like an issuesince they summon other things and runemagic always being a possibility. But /shrug

[CappnRob]

Dancing rune weapon doesn't prove it could be summoned, it just proves that it's a dancing rune weapon.

Dancing Rune Weapon
60 Runic Power 30 yd range
Instant cast
Requires Melee Weapon
Summons a second rune weapon that fights on its own for 12 sec, mirroring the Death Knight's attacks. The rune weapon also assists in defense of its master, granting an additional 20% parry chance while active.

Summons a second rune weapon that fights on its own for 12 sec, mirroring the Death Knight's attacks. The rune weapon also assists in defense of its master, granting an additional 20% parry chance while active.

Summons a second rune weapon

Summons

... yeah.

... that said, it takes 60 runic energy to do so, and DKs only have like 100? I'd imagine summoning a weapon takes a good deal of energy out of you. This should keep people from misusing it irresponsibly.

[Harmonic]

Dancing rune weapon doesn't prove it could be summoned, it just proves that it's a dancing rune weapon.

Dancing Rune Weapon
60 Runic Power 30 yd range
Instant cast
Requires Melee Weapon
Summons a second rune weapon that fights on its own for 12 sec, mirroring the Death Knight's attacks. The rune weapon also assists in defense of its master, granting an additional 20% parry chance while active.

Summons a second rune weapon that fights on its own for 12 sec, mirroring the Death Knight's attacks. The rune weapon also assists in defense of its master, granting an additional 20% parry chance while active.

Summons a second rune weapon

Summons

... yeah.

... that said, it takes 60 runic energy to do so, and DKs only have like 100? I'd imagine summoning a weapon takes a good deal of energy out of you. This should keep people from misusing it irresponsibly.

Did you read the rest of my post where I said "Sorry about that, read the link and that's actually compelling?"

...Now where's that post of Piken's saying that people that put ... before things come off as condescending?

[CappnRob]

... herp. I am an idiot who missed that part. Sorry.

/dons dunce cap

[ThePharaoh]

Don't CoTH me Bro ... but it's probably going to happen anyway. I see why that phrase sticks.

Is there alternatives that this may be possible but just not a standard DK skill. What about assigning a rune to the armor and having one corresponding on the body. Could the runes using rune magic bring forth the armor to their body. Perhaps all they would have to do is strap it up? Could they summon it to the ground in front of them and put it on. Because the Unholy Initiates spontaneously pop theirs on even with the spec, I know there is no animation for putting the armor on piece by piece but worst things happen. If I may be honest, this sounds more like a personal pet peeve than anything really going against anybody. Can we just RP? and Have fun I understand guidelines are important but somethings just don't need to be that serious, since this is a fantasy game and not a medival game. I think people -really- need to think about that. This isn't morrowind or game of thrones... Why is it we always shun the fanatical elements that don't harm anything for the few who it doesn't effect? Could an arcanist or enchanter set their armor up? Don't other classes summon things ( not saying since they can DK's can ) but could one class help another class set this up if not making this a dk ability.

[Kage]

Don't CoTH me Bro ... but it's probably going to happen anyway. I see why that phrase sticks.

Is there alternatives that this may be possible but just not a standard DK skill. What about assigning a rune to the armor and having one corresponding on the body. Could the runes using rune magic bring forth the armor to their body. Perhaps all they would have to do is strap it up? Could they summon it to the ground in front of them and put it on. Because the Unholy Initiates spontaneously pop theirs on even with the spec, I know there is no animation for putting the armor on piece by piece but worst things happen. If I may be honest, this sounds more like a personal pet peeve than anything really going against anybody. Can we just RP? and Have fun I understand guidelines are important but somethings just don't need to be that serious, since this is a fantasy game and not a medival game. I think people -really- need to think about that. This isn't morrowind or game of thrones... Why is it we always shun the fanatical elements that don't harm anything for the few who it doesn't effect? Could an arcanist or enchanter set their armor up? Don't other classes summon things ( not saying since they can DK's can ) but could one class help another class set this up if not making this a dk ability.

I get where your coming from, but this was more a discussion on the fact that some players had DK's that when threatened, became an unstoppable force of Saranite (Forgive, the word slips my mind) armor and rune weapons. Lets say you sneak up on a paladin and attack. The most that man/woman can do is use holy spells and evade, unless there always carrying their armor. But with DK's (Mind you I'm not saying all of em do that, just goign by whats been said in the discussion) could just step back and -BAM!- walking tank once more. Anyway, that's what I've taken from this, might be wrong, might not be.

[Aphetoros]

Don't CoTH me Bro ... but it's probably going to happen anyway. I see why that phrase sticks.

Is there alternatives that this may be possible but just not a standard DK skill. What about assigning a rune to the armor and having one corresponding on the body. Could the runes using rune magic bring forth the armor to their body. Perhaps all they would have to do is strap it up? Could they summon it to the ground in front of them and put it on. Because the Unholy Initiates spontaneously pop theirs on even with the spec, I know there is no animation for putting the armor on piece by piece but worst things happen. If I may be honest, this sounds more like a personal pet peeve than anything really going against anybody. Can we just RP? and Have fun I understand guidelines are important but somethings just don't need to be that serious, since this is a fantasy game and not a medival game. I think people -really- need to think about that. This isn't morrowind or game of thrones... Why is it we always shun the fanatical elements that don't harm anything for the few who it doesn't effect? Could an arcanist or enchanter set their armor up? Don't other classes summon things ( not saying since they can DK's can ) but could one class help another class set this up if not making this a dk ability.

I get where your coming from, but this was more a discussion on the fact that some players had DK's that when threatened, became an unstoppable force of Saranite (Forgive, the word slips my mind) armor and rune weapons. Lets say you sneak up on a paladin and attack. The most that man/woman can do is use holy spells and evade, unless there always carrying their armor. But with DK's (Mind you I'm not saying all of em do that, just goign by whats been said in the discussion) could just step back and -BAM!- walking tank once more. Anyway, that's what I've taken from this, might be wrong, might not be.

Also, Saronite reflects holy magic. So... G'luck, Monsieur Holyman!

Anyway, I think it's completely fine if someone runes each individual piece of their armor so they can summon it onto their body. I mean, probably something to put in TRP, but hey! Maybe you keep it in your Deathcharger's Saddlebags, or something xD!

What if you can do it, but it either takes a large amount of runic power (more than DRW's 60%) or it takes about 1/2~1 minute to summon it. I'm all for compromise, as long as the GMs approve it then I won't argue! :3

So, what say you guys?

[Zhaei]

Compromise would be great but there would be characters that say they are specialised in X and can thus summon quicker, quicker, instantly. I've had the same query with other topics but stuff like above is going to happen.

[ThePharaoh]

Yeah but that's circumstantial. Then what are we doing this for to make things 'Fair'? Just because a DK summons his armor doesn't mean he'll necessarily win. It may just mean he gets beat up in armor. I like the ability being an option because I hate seeing people just walk around in armor all day. I don't hate it but it would be tiring and akward for mobility to sit in a bar in fullarmor not break the wood chair and casually laugh while eating. Also if saronite is supposed to have ill effects on the mind, I'd like my mentally disturbed DK to be as sane as possible and not use the saronite. The thing is, if this is the true reason and I'm not trying to call you out Kage but -everything- every rule the staff comes up with, can and will be exploited. Its all down to the players and individual bases on if they can be trusted. I've RPed with -SO- many GM's old and new and Jidaeo has summoned his armor and we all went into battle together. Nobody said anything to me for years and now its an issue I'm confused.

Perhaps if it is because as you say people abuse it. Can it take more time to do? Perhaps an intricate ceremony? Can it be a GM ordained ability to those who won't misuse the spell? My question is, "Is there a way for those who don't abuse this ability to use it, even if a mage or enchanter has to set it up?"