Grakor Grumbles: Sexual RP Policy

[Psychyn]

Eh, I'll be honest and possibly pessimistic, that I can see high-class escorts fall right back into the same purpose on CotH. I'd rather not see any line of such toons, no matter what class/wealth/title associated with it. From the time I've spend on CotH the 'may not even happen' line usually quickly spins to the 'most likely will'. (Not just for sex, many other scenarios start with 'may not even happen'.)

This not meant to offend or criticize people, it is just the nature I've seen from many including myself. <3 (I don't mean it all that bad or serious really, apply it to yourself as you see fit. Figured I'd add that before stepping on someones toes.)

[Harmonic]

To redirect the conversation about "prostitutes" a bit...would your answers change if we're talking about, say, higher-class escorts? At which point their jobs are much more than anything sexual, and may not involve sexual activities at all.

Well.

Kinda? I mean, I guess the whole thing is tolerable, as long as the character overall isn't solely for eRP. Just like anything, as long as the character is rolled JUST for the fact that people are going out of their way to cyber with it, I guess it's tolerable. At which point, if someone tells them it's not a comfortable thing, then that sort of interaction wouldn't come out.

Warning you all right now, if this happens, I'm making Rensin a constitute. There's no pros to him being a hooker, in other words.

Edit: But again, I feel very iffy about it just because it really opens up the idea of sexuality on CoTH, something that's downplayed hard core here. We've eliminated a LOT of what we used to have, and made it a lot more strict that it used to be. I.E., the rules with what images/drawings are allowed here. Seems to me that allowing us to have hookers in game but any sort of illicit image of any kind could get you in trouble sort of sends mixed signals.



Edit: Another log for the fire. What cultures would this be allowable in? Would Orcs freely pay for it on the streets? Would Stormwind have strict laws regarding this? Would the cartel have it right up in your face?

If it's allowed, where will it be allowed? What's the situation of it? Nggh. Part of the problem is too, there's -no- lore to show any of this sort of thing. Obviously I'm not saying it can't happen, prostitution is one of the most realistic things in life---it happens, and really was the first "profession" of sorts, along with farming. Heh.

[Nymus]

To redirect the conversation about "prostitutes" a bit...would your answers change if we're talking about, say, higher-class escorts? At which point their jobs are much more than anything sexual, and may not involve sexual activities at all.

You mean along the lines of second wife? I remember reading/seeing/hearing something about how Japanese businessmen would get an escort, not for sweet love makin', but just to be a kind of... servant for hire.

---

was the first "profession" of sorts, along with farming. Heh.

"Plowing" has always been an important part of life, hasn't it?

[Vladdy]

@Nymus: Plowing has indeed been an important part of life. But really, who can blame these people? It's hard not to be turned on when you see this.

Spoiler:

[Harmonic]

At the risk of derailing this further: I'd love to sow my seeds right now with that thing.





...ANYWAYS, yes. I think that no matter the class of prostitute, we'd have to consider a few things, what does this mean for CoTH if we are open to it, and will we have to say to those uncomfortable with it that it's a character concept they will have to deal with, but not necessarily have to interact with on that level? How would we handle all of this?

[Etmosril]

Keep it secret, keep it safe. If it's public RP with someone naked or saying lewd things for some reason, then sure, they should take it to party if someone complains. But that is entirely different from ERP, which should be content for parties only.

Not permitting characters who are proclaimed prostitutes is likely the wisest course here. See, while you really can't restrict what people do in private - if they want a prostitute, they'll roll one -, you'll still be forcing the people who play them to develop their characters outside their profession. Is this not more beneficial than forbidding them, and letting the only ones be unprofiled and poorly devised?

So, people can still roll 'em, but aside from a few hints, their profession/side job will not take top billing. The focus of the profile remains on the character, and how well they're thought out.

Oh, and gossip and ostracizing is far less likely if the character's status is kept secret. Seems like a nice fringe benefit.

[Aadora]

what does this mean for CoTH if we are open to it,

To me this means that we on this server are mature enough to not make a big deal out of sexual themes, and still mature enough to keep it private.

and will we have to say to those uncomfortable with it that it's a character concept they will have to deal with, but not necessarily have to interact with on that level?

If we allowed these things to be openly available such as publicly RPing a prostitute, then yeah it would probably have to be said that you would have to deal with them being around but don't have to interact with them. But personally I don't like that idea and would prefer such things be kept private. It's not a big deal, but it's a big enough deal for me to not want to have to be around it.

How would we handle all of this?

Rules. Make them. Teach them. Enforce them.

I think that playing prostitutes should be allowed but not allowed publicly. It's kinda the same as it is now. No I don't think people should be able to put it out there publicly that their character is a prostitute. That sort of detail only matters to one kind of RP partner, and I'm sure you'll let them know when you're interested in such a thing.

I don't think these characters should walk around talking about being a prostitute either, and should keep it to themselves until they are in a private situation where it can be talked about.

Generally, I think that all aspects of playing a prostitute should be kept private and away from public RP. I don't care/want to know if your character is one as it doesn't affect me in the slightest and in fact just kinda makes it awkward.



On the subject of sexual promiscuity:

I have seen plenty of people play draenei as sexually promiscuous. I have brought this up and there have been debates/arguments about it, the fact that draenei's society was one of mating for life not one of being sexually promiscuous. It is my opinion that they are but the most used counter to this opinion by people is "Not ever member of a race is the same."

I have an issue with this, because I look at these people and I honestly highly doubt that they are doing this to be different. And even if they are, is that any reason to play a character different from the norm in such a way as sexual promiscuity? Simply because you want to be different?

I believe that too many people play characters that are sexually active with multiple partners because they desire such openness and availability OOC, rather than it meaning anything to the character IC.

People don't often think of the consequences of the feelings their characters would be feeling in such situations. Instead they (Don't take this as an insult, I'm just making a reference here :P) hide behind their monitors being shielded from what their characters feel, and are thus able to be more open about these things.

TL;DR:

I think that ever aspect of playing a prostitute should be kept private.

People shouldn't play a character as being different for the sake of being different, especially not for reasons such as sexual interaction.

I think that people play promiscuous characters simply for the sake of feeling open and free, not for any IC reason.

[Avitz]

To toss my opinions into the hat:

- Aye, Keep ERP or activities that may be considered unsuited for the server private - Fully private. As in keeping clothes on character models and the like. Consider walking down a forest path and seeing two people sat in full clothes and sat stark naked : You'd likely think of different things at first.
- Don't bother allowing 'Courtesan' or 'Escort' characters alongside prostitutes. People would just roll escorts and use them like the latter.
- Talking about interactions, so long as it wasn't explicit, is fine for public rp in my opinion. I don't think its too far a stretch to pass off a lone line about it ("So how was last night?" *Snicker Snicker*) but telling a tale of what happened would be.

As someone who has erped in the past, I do wonder a little why people go about it on CotH. Yes, ERP can be fun and it can develop plotlines in interesting ways but in my personal opinion it tends to simply derail stories because people are far too busy being lovey dovey than going out and solving problems. That's not to say romance is bad Drama per-se...but in my opinion it has a shelf life before it hits a downward spiral on creativity.

Alas, CotH tends to be the place where the rule seems to be the exception which is its blessing and curse. Ultimately if something is tasteful it should be praised and anything untasteful should be called out. I'm not saying naming and shaming, but peer pressure is a mighty useful thing.

[Nymus]

@Nymus: Plowing has indeed been an important part of life. But really, who can blame these people? It's hard not to be turned on when you see this.

-snip-

[Xigo]

To me this means that we on this server are mature enough to not make a big deal out of sexual themes, and still mature enough to keep it private.

Do note that the server is available for minors to pretty much freely roleplay on.

[Harmonic]

To me this means that we on this server are mature enough to not make a big deal out of sexual themes, and still mature enough to keep it private.

Do note that the server is available for minors to pretty much freely roleplay on.

That's exactly what I was getting at. Gets tricky when you're willing to "subject" minors to that sort of material, considering we call ourselves a PG13 server. When you toss something as raw and sexual as prostitution into the mix, then you've got to question that "rating".

Once you get into that sort of thing being allowable, it ceases to be young person friendly, and goes to the extreme of being adult. If we want the server to pander to adults only, then I'd probably be more open and comfortable with the idea of prostitute characters being allowed, as then you can easily verify that everyone included in said RP is of age, and you don't have to worry about the problems associated with such things.

But then, we'd have to restructure a lot of things. We'd have to call into question other policies that have been ruled on that were to protect those that were younger on our server---such as the nudity/sexuality in art rule, language rules, all those things. This is something I will say... I honestly believe CoTH is not ready for. I think a lot of GM's and players DON'T WANT THIS. They don't want a restructured "Adult" version of CoTH. It's been steering away from that, from the Grimdark for -many- years, since I joined.


When I joined, we had a picture area. One of the subsets of that area was an "adult" area, where people drew naked pictures of their characters. The adult channel was conceived JUST because some individuals wanted to eRP in public. A lot more was tolerated then, than it is now. This is a conversation I had with Rigley before, and this fact -bothered- him, and he outright stated "I probably wouldn't have been here then, or would have left right away." (Sorry Rigley! Had to bring up that example.)

CoTH was going through the maturing phase then. There was a lot more to call into question during those years CoTH had been up, and that have been changed. I do -not- think adding prostitution is keeping any of those changes in mind. I think it's retroactive to what's been put in place already. Was CoTH better back then? Absolutely not. It had it's fun stuff, and it's merits, but overall it was a more hostile environment that really left a lot of discontent.

No reason to revert. No reason for us to have ONE extremely adult topic, only to be hypocritical and leave out others. No reason to -restructure- CoTH.

I really hope we don't turn out contradictory.

[Nightharrow]

When it comes to restrictions on characters I am not fond of the policy against prostitutes, but I support their reasons. There are real laws regarding sexual content and underage players. By allowing it to happen openly Kretol and Grakor could ultimately be seen as supporting individuals who do break the law. They need to cover their bases. It's not the same as retail. Blizzard won't get sued or charged if Joe Idiot lures a 15 year old into an erotic roleplay. However, an individual running a private server could be.


However, I think players are ultimately responsible for themselves. Even with that rule in place it does not stop individuals from doing as they please. More players should be conscious of the fact that in the U.S. ERPing with a minor is against the law. Even two minors ERPing is against the law in most states. The rules in place protect the server from the foolish actions of individuals.


Now don't get me wrong! I have roleplayed prostitutes a number of times and I adore them. They are my favorite character concept to play. You can be a classy escort with an enormous chip on their shoulder or a street urchin with a heart of gold (and lots in between). The reactions from other characters is always interesting as well. You have to fight through the OOC stigma, but if you are persistent and are truly not an ERP mule then you prove 'em all wrong. However, I still don't think they should be allowed on CotH.

[SachikoMaeda]

What about characters with professions that mistakenly get lumped into the "prostitute" category? I mean, really, the only thing that would classify someone as a prostitute would be accepting money for sexual acts. What about all those loose characters who could possibly just for ERP/smut? Minors should know the possibility of getting into these adult themed situations upon joining so we're not liable if something were to happen.

It's a fine line, but if you ask me? If someone wants to play a prostitute, they will. They'll do it where others won't see it. It's a loophole in that "what you don't know won't hurt you".

[Harmonic]

What about characters with professions that mistakenly get lumped into the "prostitute" category? I mean, really, the only thing that would classify someone as a prostitute would be accepting money for sexual acts. What about all those loose characters who could possibly just for ERP/smut? Minors should know the possibility of getting into these adult themed situations upon joining so we're not liable if something were to happen.

It's a fine line, but if you ask me? If someone wants to play a prostitute, they will. They'll do it where others won't see it. It's a loophole in that "what you don't know won't hurt you".

Rolling a loose character is vastly different than rolling a character who's job description is sex. As for someone that gets lumped in the prostitute category... do you mean escorts? As in arm candy? Typically, even if that's the case there's the connotation that it's going to involve intercourse at some point.

We can't prevent everyone from doing lewd things (I'm fond of my own personal lewdness, I'm CERTAINLY not a prude in the slightest), however, when it boils down to it, do we want to say "It's okay to accost people for sex ICly" or do we want to steer away from that?

[SachikoMaeda]

I'm under the impression we can all handle things maturely. With that said, it's my standpoint that I feel we should allow such things. If there's a fear it'll get out of control, then put in GM regulation.