Grakor Grumbles: Sexual RP Policy

[Harmonic]

I'm under the impression we can all handle things maturely. With that said, it's my standpoint that I feel we should allow such things. If there's a fear it'll get out of control, then put in GM regulation.

And those that are underage?

Edit: To me it's not even a matter of maturity. That's not what I'm saying. It's more about how we want the server to be, and who it's accommodating.

[SachikoMaeda]

The underage are exposed to potentially sexual themes all the time in media. I don't see what makes this different.

[Harmonic]

The underage are exposed to potentially sexual themes all the time in media. I don't see what makes this different.

The big difference is that CoTH poses itself as being PG13. That would change if prostitution ICly was allowed. I'm thinking of this from my perspective as a parent, I know for a fact if I had a 13 year old daughter that wanted to RP here, and I knew people were allowed to RP as prostitutes, I wouldn't be too ready to allow them to be here.

[Psychyn]

I'm under the impression we can all handle things maturely. With that said, it's my standpoint that I feel we should allow such things. If there's a fear it'll get out of control, then put in GM regulation.

Even if we can handle it maturely, that doesn't automatically mean we wish to see it. If this were an adult server like Rensin mentioned, you can expect to find such things, but to open a PG-13 server up to adult material like that? That just doesn't fit, nor should it be squeezed in without overhauling the whole system first.

If players really -wish- to see this thing, we'd be better off with a separated server. One for 'adults', where registration is checked by signing up whether or not a person is 18 (though they can always lie and pretend, but over time people will be spotted regardless.) and one like we got at the moment, PG-13. Which is easier said then done, as I'm sure one can imagine all the work needed to do that, within the team, rules and policies and so on.

Prostitution, escorts, call-girls or how you wish to call it, just doesn't blend into the nature of the server we got going at the moment. (That's just my opinion.) Regardless of the outside media or not, do we really want to encourage it? I know I don't, despite having been open in various threads that I do enjoy ERP and whatever scenario comes with it. It reminds me somewhat of retail, with no offence intended, where people randomly whisper you for ERP. (And heh, that's what I quit and am happy to not be on anymore.)

[SachikoMaeda]

Publicly it's held as PG13. In private channels it's practically unregulated. Just having a character that isn't soliciting publicly but still not allowed confuses me.

I have a character that could be labeled as "arm candy", but in no way accepts payment for sex. I don't use him for ERP and his work doesn't define who he is as a character. What about these situations? Do I lose my character because he could be mistaken for a prostitute?

[Rowgen]

This may sound conservative, but I personally don't think flaunting prostitution and other similar sexual themes publicly in a supposedly PG13-rated online community is the way to go. Frankly, it does not matter whether people who have "seen it all" or "aren't discomforted by things like this" say that it shouldn't be prohibited. Rules are in place to protect the people who haven't seen it all, and who are discomforted by those themes. We don't want to expose people to it. We have rules in place so people can be comfortable and, more importantly, comfortable about speaking up.

Let's say someone isn't comfortable about the way someone is talking openly about this in the OOC zone. What do we tell that person? Do we tell them to toughen up and ignore it? What do we do about these people, when the rules don't protect them? Fortunately, they do.

This is not a hypothetical scenario. This is a personal experience. I can now gladly say that I have "seen it all" and that I am "not bothered by things like this", but that does not change the fact that I never saw things or become so calloused by choice.

[Harmonic]

Publicly it's held as PG13. In private channels it's practically unregulated. Just having a character that isn't soliciting publicly but still not allowed confuses me.

I have a character that could be labeled as "arm candy", but in no way accepts payment for sex. I don't use him for ERP and his work doesn't define who he is as a character. What about these situations? Do I lose my character because he could be mistaken for a prostitute?

That's not what I said, or what's being said. What I'm saying is that a character that defines themselves as a prostitute--- a person who sells sex, is automatically labeled as being exactly that. A character created to sell sex. Arm candy, what have you, as long as it's just that and not advertised as being a prostitute should be fine.

When you go full blown into the category of "This character is for sexual RP" is when things get iffy. Allowing people to play prostitutes on the server is risky, very very risky, because it sets a known precedence. Again, I go back to my analogy of a parent allowing their children to play in a place that allows "You to be a hooker!". We should keep it publicly PG13 by -not allowing- this sort of character, but again---people will do what people do in private. Just like with eRP, such a thing should only exist in the privacy between a few people.

As for making it part of a character's backstory or profile... I can see why you'd argue "Well it's part of them, why can't I include it, even if it's private?" The reason is as stated above. Once we allow that sort of thing, the mindset and structure of CoTH changes, big time. You can't call a server that allows prostitution in game "PG13". That's a -very- adult topic.

[SachikoMaeda]

And upon reading the Motion Pictures Association of America's Rating System and from working at a theater, there's a lot of things that can go into a PG-13 rating that won't warrant an R rating. People under 17 can purchase tickets to PG-13 films. Why is this relavent? The content can still be there, but they wouldn't be exposed to the more "hardened" and "mature" aspects.

I still stand by if it's held in private and not advertised publicly, by all means go ahead. The public context of the scenario could be well away from the more mature themes. So long as the context of the publicly portrayed actions of a character don't suggest they're out for the business in your underpants, then it's handled properly and would fit in a PG-13 rating.

[Harmonic]

Okay. Well, I'm not talking from a movie standpoint. I'm talking from a content awareness standpoint. The fact that sometimes content like that slips by into a PG13 movie is -exactly- why more people should be aware of what their kids view, if they honestly care about such things. Speaking for myself, and I'm sure more than a handful of others, I don't think that Prostitution is something that is friendly to a 13 year old. We could split hairs over this all day, and provide links back and forth, but let me ask you a question---would you be willing to present this to a thirteen year old and say it's okay?

You're saying that you don't find a problem with allowing a place that's supposed to be kid friendly having hookers in the game?

[Noble]

Since when are we a PG13 server? Seriously, the themes utilized both ICly make us anything but Disney-quality or even something that would earn the rating of anything below R. I'm beginning to lose sight on exactly what this debate is trying to establish, 'we should prevent minors from exposure to eroticism.' Versus, 'like that would even happen anyway.' Really? This entire debate is becoming a bias of conservatism versus liberalism, and I hate to be the one to point that out.

I'll just settle down my opinions on the current matter now;

• Minors are inevitably going to be shown adult themes here, wheither we like it or not. CoTH is too diverse a community and too large for any rules like that to be enforced.
  
• Rules regarding prostitudes, and erotic roleplay in general are -JUST- fine as they are, and it's fine to allow them. If we allowed prostitudes I don't see that "changing" anything or causing a massive drama crisis or roleplayers being idiots about the whole topic.
  
• While the reason for barring characters from being made for -PURELY THE INTENT- of erotic roleplay is not invisible, those rules are ignored, the sun goes down and it comes up the next day. Nothing has changed. It's not like that RP is blatantly flaunted around the public, and the people that do that RP hardly affect the overall general populace of CoTH.
  

[Harmonic]

I'd dig up where it says that, but CoTH has always been PG-13. I'm sure one of the GM's knows off-hand where it specifically states that.

[Noble]

Those matters only cover situations of chat policy, which is actually understandable.

EDIT: .. The only reference actually said that this is a PG-13 server is by you (Rensin) in a 2010 general discussion thread.

[Harmonic]

No cursing or vulgarity in any public chat channel. Try to keep everything reasonably PG-13-rated. Being as how everyone automatically joins LFG, as an example, it really doesn't need publicly-inappropriate content. This also goes for the forums. Any OOC discussion that is R-rated and up needs to go in the Adult channel (type /join Adult). Again, derogatory comments will not be allowed in this channel, either.

Here's the first offhand thing I could find on it in the rules. I'm looking for other places it states this, but I'll probably give up before really ever trying.

---

Those matters only cover situations of chat policy, which is actually understandable.

Fair enough. I think that'd be best determined by a GM though, or Grakor himself, as I've seen more than once this place mentioned as being overall "PG-13", especially when the topic of explicit images popped up.

[Nymus]

I'm under the impression we can all handle things maturely. With that said, it's my standpoint that I feel we should allow such things. If there's a fear it'll get out of control, then put in GM regulation.

Even if we can handle it maturely, that doesn't automatically mean we wish to see it. If this were an adult server like Rensin mentioned, you can expect to find such things, but to open a PG-13 server up to adult material like that? That just doesn't fit, nor should it be squeezed in without overhauling the whole system first.

If players really -wish- to see this thing, we'd be better off with a separated server. One for 'adults', where registration is checked by signing up whether or not a person is 18 (though they can always lie and pretend, but over time people will be spotted regardless.) and one like we got at the moment, PG-13. Which is easier said then done, as I'm sure one can imagine all the work needed to do that, within the team, rules and policies and so on.

Prostitution, escorts, call-girls or how you wish to call it, just doesn't blend into the nature of the server we got going at the moment. (That's just my opinion.) Regardless of the outside media or not, do we really want to encourage it? I know I don't, despite having been open in various threads that I do enjoy ERP and whatever scenario comes with it. It reminds me somewhat of retail, with no offence intended, where people randomly whisper you for ERP. (And heh, that's what I quit and am happy to not be on anymore.)

SERIOUS MODE ACTIVATED.

It seems a lot of people are focusing on this being bad for minors. I am a minor (15), and I've been exposed to far worse than prostitutes on a RP server, mainly because of how much the internet has jaded me. Hell, I've used and abused the Darkwood Bordello in Fable a lot of times. Although that's probably because the noises they make are funny. And the old lady.

Some people may think that the prostitutes, call girls, waifus, etc. are just funny, to be there for a laugh, maybe for seriousness, stuff like that. Others may think it's bad for a kid to be exposed to this. Really depends on who is looking at it.

This thread seems to be a bit of a slippery slope. Hopefully this won't devolve into questioning morals and ethics. Gotta ask Grakky, where did this question come from? Quite a... risque one to put up.

[SachikoMaeda]

If we were following the MPAA ratings, this would be an R rated server.

I've (sadly) known second graders that knew about these risky subjects. Thirteen is the beginning of the teen years. That's when they get possibly the most sexual exposure. The individuals who don't want it won't partake in it. Those who want it will get it. And if it was my thirteen year old we were talking about? I would be content with these fictional exposure. It's not like they'll be out running with the real deal. Then I would have a problem.

I believe it falls to the individual to decide. It's something that comes with maturity is learning to decide for now's self. However! If we are concerned as a community with underaged people becoming exposed to such things, we can ask players if they are over the age of 17 or 18 and deny going into such subjects even privately with the other.