Grakor Grumbles: Sexual RP Policy

[SachikoMaeda]

As usual I'm in the minority on this subject. I fail to see how all this violence and ending the lives of people is just fine. We can let the dead bodies of our victims litter the ground for a few bucks and it's a mercenary, disregarding the crime of assault and murder. Yet the mention of solicitation or prostitution for a bit of money, and it's a horrible taboo that no one can touch with a ten-foot pole. I could argue for hours about how the media subjects children to sexual content to sell their products every single day and in ways that most people probably wouldn't even notice.

We're not talking children. We're talking teenagers. Teenagers. I'm pretty sure they know what sex is and how it works, and if not, they're gonna find out soon enough. Perhaps in Sex Ed, Biology, or the Internet. We're adults here. We don't ask eachother our ages before going into RP because we tend to assume everyone here can handle themselves as adults. Out of Character is where we hold out PG-13 rating, but if you step back and look at it, once we go in character that changes. We hit that R rating (assuming we're using the MPAA system).

Prostitutes? Go for it. Have a field day. Just don't cram it down the throats of the more sensitive people.

[Noble]

..I don't think a ten year old, lest they be very intelligent, would make it into CoTH, and remain. Sorry guys, but I think in a ten year old's mind, CoTH is absolutely irrelevant.

It isn't just "murder" that makes it such a bad double standard, sure some kids that own COD know some .. very arcade and "fun" mechanics of "killing." But CoTH isn't COD, in terms of violence, we tend to skirt along the lines of Man Hunt sometimes. No one ever really said prostitutes would be paraded around, or should be for that matter. And anyway it's not like people censor themselves IC, if it's just dialogue with a hooker .. well, I can't picture it being much more different than how people seem to play goblin females and males here, if in their dialogue usage alone.

My point is, we already allow people to say half the things that come out of the mouths of some characters (unfortunately including one or two of my own in the past), do the Azeroth equal to drugs, talk about sex and all the lovely vices and sins. What's wrong with just, the presence alone, of prostitutes? I've already repeated myself when I say all the overly "steamy" things are going to be private.

[Valicor]

As I said and I'll say again. ERP in itself is not wrong. Prostitutes, as RP characters, are not wrong. As Sachiko said, "Just don't cram it down the throats of the more sensitive people." That is a good summary to me, except you can't be sure who's sensitive, so you may as well just assume and don't cram it down ANYBODIES throats. Just as an assassin won't be overly eager to kill you, don't be overly eager to "service" somebody, if a prostitute is your role. As I said. Subtlety, discreetness, and for good heavens, maturity.

Besides that, it's a sunny day and a fun time.

[Harmonic]

Since when is it okay to violently end people's lives? Extreme gore and violence has -always- been just as frowned upon out in the open as sexuality.

I keep saying this but I feel like it's being missed or glossed over.

Edit: Again, a serial killer is just as frowned upon of a concept as a hooker. Does it happen? Yes. In both instances. It's just -not- what flies for a profile as it's not something that is -encouraged-.

[Wuvvums]

I'm really uncomfortable with the assumption that just because teens might have been exposed to it they can supposedly handle it. I didn't even understand what sex was until I was around 14-15 and even then I didn't have a good grasp on my sexuality until I was 18 (this was even despite the fact that I was a victim of sexual abuse). And there were times where it became over-emotional and overwhelming to deal with, and I felt I had made huge mistakes and done things that were wrong.

We just assume that because sex is so prevalent that teens can just "deal with it" and deal with the pressure but honestly everyone's different and for some of us we didn't quite grasp it so soon, or in a way that was comfortable and not distressing. Honestly I do not want to bring up sexual themes towards any minors, and for a good reason. They are still developing emotionally, cognitively, physically and sexually, so if anything we should really back off and stop assuming it's alright to bring up around teens.

[Harmonic]

See. Murders tend to have character warnings too.

Although. I am kind of entertained by this idea...

"Character warning. I'm a prostitute. I might ask for money in exchange for sex if you RP with me."

[Duraza]

So.. I'm just gonna put it out there: Violence is the topic of World of Warcraft. It's World of -War-craft. That's the the topic of the game, and by extension the topic of roleplay here. Discussing the double standard of 'why killing but not sex' isn't relevant. You're asking us to ignore the lore and the game.

Sex is not the topic of Warcraft (This isn't Age of Conan). There's obviously more room for control there. Anyways, I'm exceeding my post limit for these kinds of discussions.

[Vladdy]

I know I've said this before, but...I just can't help myself.

Prostitutes?



It's uncomfortable, and it gives this feeling of dirtiness. Dirtiness on the inside, which is far worse than dirt on the outside. Do what you want if it's in private; but outside? NOPE!

[Geoni]

I've been trying to avoid making another post here now that the thread has been blow up but...

...why are we comparing violence and gore to sexuality? It's a very different thing that is certainly allowable in this setting. You know what Orcs with axes means? It means that they're ready to gore a person if it comes to it. I've been pretty descriptive when I've hurt my characters or put them through bodily harm, and I haven't received a whisper, PM, or mentioning in a party that I need to tone it down. If I was describing something sexual, it'd be a whole other story.

Let's face it, violence is widely accepted by the audience of the server while sexuality is not. It's something we shouldn't be comparing.

As for the topic at hand, I think that escorts should be allowable, at least in the noble scene. There's a culture around this profession that hints at but doesn't describe sexual behavior. Since it would be a reference to them, I might as well bring them up. Often times, geishas would be escorts and nothing more. It wasn't until WW2 when they were sexualized and mimicked by common prostitutes. This is why I think an escort, as least one that draws from what we saw in the old geisha culture, should be allowable.

However, there is a difference between the escorts I am talking about and a prostitute. I think this is something that we as a community need to distinguish.

...okay I'm done. I dislike involving myself too much in threads like this, I just thought I'd throw that thought out there.

[Dae]

I have seen a character clearly soliciting sex for money without ever expressly alluding to sexual acts. The character was enslaved and looking to use such behavior as a means to buy herself out of her situation. If I had been on a different character at the time, there would have been plenty of depth to explore through RP with that character without ever again even touching on their having sex for money. That is just fine with me, and no one of the +dozen or so players in the vicinity brought up any mention of discomfort either.
In fact, by what the majority of people have said in this thread, that seems to be just fine around here. I'll also have to point out that, outside of explicitly mature/dark events on the server, only once have I been in RP where I would even potentially object to the degree of physical harm one character received, due to IC detailing of the injury, and this occurred among people I OoCly associate with outside of CotH and who I expect know I wouldn't mind mature content for the sake of storytelling. I can't help but feel like people might be exaggerating how much explicit gore occurs in genuinely public RP...
Even then, as was pointed out in earlier posts, "War," is right there in the title. You're going to be hard-pressed to find a character whose life hasn't been deeply affected by the strife in and around Azeroth. Fighting and death are also catalysts for a huge portion of the magic of our characters, from paladins to the Forsaken to pyre masters and the reformation of conventional Druidism for the Night Elves. I dare say that the Warcraft setting offers violence some outlets that make it more virtuous than it can be in reality, with genuine evils and sporting combat being viable and less-risky when among friends in-lore.
Sex? Not so much. The only time sex is anything beyond its real-world counterpart in lore is with it complicating the relationship of warlocks and succubi, and that's potentially deadly for those involved, though there is hardly any lore on the subject period.

[Xigo]

/chinrubs

I think the distinction we need to focus on is whether or not this is a 13+ or an 18+ server, as far as 'public content' is concerned. Personally, I consider it more in the 18+ territory (which I'm cool with), and starting to slooowly inch towards 21+ (which I'm not cool with).

I personally don't really mind people playing prostitutes, and they were not the reason I brought up this topic with the other GMs in the first place. I'm really just worried about ERPy stuff becoming more and more... open. That's all. I do personally believe prostitutes/escorts are not characters that revolve around ERP, even if their profession involves it heavily (I wouldn't mind making an escort and just fading-to-black). What I don't want is for a character to be commonly known as the 'server tart', or a guild to become known as 'that guild you go to for the erp'.

Granted, I just personally think violence and murdering the heck out of people a much more sour subject than whether or not X slept with Y on Z doing Q with the V in the R.

"You've just successfully murdered three town guardsmen, and six innocents were caught in the battle and slain as well. What do you do?"
"I brag about it with my mate and compare kill-totals."

[Harmonic]

18+? I'm down with. But what's 21+?

[Noble]

..I like your point Xigo, but ditto for Rensin.

[Xigo]

18+? I'm down with. But what's 21+?

18+ = Sex happens and is mentioned/discussed, but you never explicitly see what it is. Violence occurs, but you generally don't see people crawling on the ground begging for mercy with blah blah blah gushing out. Y'know. Video-game/cop-drama deaths. Summer blockbuster sex.

21+ = See -- Pornography and SAW.

[Harmonic]

18+? I'm down with. But what's 21+?

18+ = Sex happens and is mentioned/discussed, but you never explicitly see what it is. Violence occurs, but you generally don't see people crawling on the ground begging for mercy with blah blah blah gushing out. Y'know. Video-game/cop-drama deaths. Summer blockbuster sex.

21+ = See -- Pornography and SAW.

Sounds acceptable.