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The Light and How to Swing It...
#16
Perhaps the prime example to reinforce my point is Arthas.

Once a Paladin - tempted by the Lich King - Abandons righteousness - Apparently unable to call upon the Light

Arthas, in his delusional state, being manipulation as he was, obviously thought his cause to be necessary / morally justifiable. And yet, he does not call on the Light, though its power is considerable.

In my mind, this leads to the conclusion that Arthas, no longer heeding the morals of the Light, was no longer able to call upon it to do his will.

Another example is the Ashbringer's refusal to obey Darion's will to kill the defenders of Light Hope's Chapel. It doesn't matter what the individual thinks of their actions, it's what they do that determines whether the Light will listen.
'O happy race of men
If Love who rules the sky
Could rule your hearts as well!' ~ Boethius
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#17
Actually, he abandoned The Light.
Arthas was able to purge a whole town and still use his powers when he believed he was going the right thing.
In Warcraft III, Arthas abandoned The Light when he became a Death Knight, he can be quoted to say things such as "I was a fool to trust in The Light."
It seems very likely that The Light heeds those that follow both the principles of the church and their own beliefs.

Edit: He also lost his soul the second he touched Frostmourne.
Spoiler:
We're all doomed
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#18
The light doesn't "heed" anybody, it comes from within. And when you no longer believe in what it stands for, you can no longer channel it. Those who are convinced that they follow a good path can channel the light from within them.

It seems a bit hard to figure out just what enables people to channel the light, but it doesn't depend on any sentient entity deciding if you're using it right or not, you have to be fully confident in your own cause. It is also why priests who get disheartened often find it hard to call upon the Light, I suppose.
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#19
Some more evidence that the light is based on faith in it is Sir Zeliek. One of the Horseman from Naxx, who, despite being a Death Knight, still uses the Light.

"Sir Zeliek, a paladin in life, so strong in his faith, that even in undeath, the power of the light still heeds his call, smiting his foes in battle." -Eligor Dawnbringer
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
DAMN THIS COMMENT IS FANCY
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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#20
So it seems The Light is heavily based on faith, you can't fake it.
Spoiler:
We're all doomed
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#21
For Priests, yes -- the Light is a matter of faith. For Paladins, however, it is an entirely different story: Blizzard has made it clear that Paladins receive their holy power not only from prayer and belief, but from the Naaru. I think that in this case, the Light that a Paladin channels is not only not just a matter of faith, but also very much controlled by a VERY sentient being.
[Image: 2mhzmdy.gif]
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#22
Wait, I´ve never read that it would come from the Naaru, as I understood it the Naaru are light-based creatures, but not the source of the light.

There were paladins before the Naaru came to Azeroth after all, and the Blood elves use(d) the Light just as they would any other source of energy (´course, the drained it from a Naaru), the Scarlets and Lord Zeliek uses the light in what many (inlcuding, I believe a possible sentient "light") would see as evil ways.

I think that as long as the paladin fights and stands for what is right, from his perspective, the light will come to him. Arthas, the Blood elves, Lord Zeliek and the Scarlets appear to me support that notion.
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#23
Even in that sense, Nostra, is rape not a dishonourable thing? Is breaking the laws of society not dishonourable as well? Paladins must follow a strict code of conduct. These actions clearly violate them.

If even joining a group that is linked with things such as assassination, criminal acts and whatnot breaks the code.
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#24
Doesn't the light not serve evil thoughts?

That's what I heard.
"I am more afraid of one hundred sheep led by a lion than one hundred lions led by a sheep."
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#25
Not if the laws are wrong and unjust, and maybe that group dealing in criminal acts are the only way to bring down the corrupt government?

And for rape... hmm, that is tough, but there´s ways to justify most things, even if only to yourself (last female on the earth is lesbian, do you save mankind or...?).

My point is that people have this ability to tell themselves that what they do is right, a zelous paladin would probably have less problems than most others with that.
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#26
And yet, for the Blood Elves to begin to use the Light legitimately, they had to seek out A'dal and beg his forgiveness and aid. It was not until A'dal granted his power to Lady Liadrin that the Blood Elf Blood Knights once again regained their power.

This is seen again with the flight of the Draenei and their gift of power from the Naaru: "Meanwhile, the enigmatic naaru race blessed the draenei with Light-given knowledge and power. The naaru explained that there were other forces in the cosmos that would stand against the Burning Legion. One day the naaru would forge them into a single unstoppable army of the Light. Deeply affected by the naaru's words, the draenei vowed to honor the Light and uphold the naaru's altruistic ideals." (1)

The issue with Zeliek is laid out at the very beginning of his article: his mind is still his own, even though his body is not. Thus, he -would- still be able to channel the Light mentally, but it is being put to nefarious ends against his will: "It seems as though Sir Zeliek managed to retain his sanity despite Kel'Thuzad's corruption, but still his body obeys the Lich King's lieutenant. This could be seen as a mark of great spirituality and mental strength on the part of the former paladin." (2)

Regardless, in this hypothetical situation, we're not discussing Zeliek, we're not discussing a Blood Knight, we're not talking about Arthas, and we're not discussing a Scarlet Crusader. We're talking about a man who would have been trained by a Silver Hand paladin, most likely under the auspices of the Church of the Holy Light, within the law set of the Seven Kingdoms of Humanity. Given that the article on Paladins that are playable in the game CLEARLY states that, in order to continue wielding the Light, not only MUST they be of a Good alignment, they MUST follow the rules set forth by legitimate authority.

Rape and murder are not condoned by the Church of the Holy Light, and they are not condoned by the Seven Kingdoms of Humanity. As a matter of fact, they're against the law. This means that the Paladin would be breaking the Code of Conduct, and would have his power removed.
[Image: 2mhzmdy.gif]
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#27
Even if the laws are unjust, a paladin must follow the laws to achieve his goal. That's the whole difficulty of being a paladin, it is why they are so honourable.
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#28
But blood knights are playable! Hehe.

Anyway, what about Arthas, he was under the tutelage of Uther, one of the Silver Hand´s founders and he still did a few things that I am pretty sure would be considered illegal, seeing Jaina´s and Uther´s reactions to it I am thinking that I´m right.
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#29
As he was the Prince, he was his own legitimate authority. As he thought he was doing good, he was still of a Good alignment.

That's beside the point, though. The Paladin in the hypothetical isn't Arthas.
[Image: 2mhzmdy.gif]
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#30
Simply put, I don't believe we should incorporate "special circumstances" type characters, such as Arthas and the Scarlet Crusade.
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