Living Death Knights, Part 2

[Carver]

Overruled. Grakor's goal is to poll opinions which we are still interested in hearing. So long as this thread does not degenerate into a flame war or insults or the like, it will serve a purpose.

Pwnt Rosencrat! Pwnt!

[Haim]

Overruled. Grakor's goal is to poll opinions which we are still interested in hearing. So long as this thread does not degenerate into a flame war or insults or the like, it will serve a purpose.

Yes.. YES!

[muhaha8]

You know, if they're going to be allowed, then they'll be allowed. If they aren't, then for Fel's sake apply it retroactively. It's the only fair approach to disallowing them. As for Binkle, I disagree almost entirely. This isn't because of "lesDKs ERPing," it's because some people have legitimate lore issues. I also take offense to the blanket statement that all of us who argue against them have prestiges. I know many of these people, especially the peons arguing against them, do not. Please refrain from such unfounded blanket statements. My position, outside of this, has been made clear; I feel no need to repeat it for the umpteenth time.

[Torches]

When it comes to living Death Knights, myself, I believe that players should be entitled to play whatever they want. It doesn't bother me any if a player wants to play something which might be a little out of context. I don't see hundreds of living Death Knights being taken under their wing by the Lich King personally, who taught them the ways of being a Death Knight.

At the end of the day its the GM's who'll get the final answer, and whether they're in or not doesn't mean you you have to roleplay with living DK's if you despise them that much. As a roleplay server aren't we supposed to have fun as well as well, you know, roleplay? I'd rather see some living DK's than just the undead sort anyway, otherwise we might as well all play undead. :P

[Binkleheimer]

You know, if they're going to be allowed, then they'll be allowed. If they aren't, then for Fel's sake apply it retroactively. It's the only fair approach to disallowing them. As for Binkle, I disagree almost entirely. This isn't because of "lesDKs ERPing," it's because some people have legitimate lore issues. I also take offense to the blanket statement that all of us who argue against them have prestiges. I know many of these people, especially the peons arguing against them, do not. Please refrain from such unfounded blanket statements. My position, outside of this, has been made clear; I feel no need to repeat it for the umpteenth time.

I'm calling it as I see it. From my point of view, I see a sudden hate against living death knights due to the previously mentioned actions, with the RPG book retcon being the final bit needed.

I also see new people reading the forums and, in short, siding with one side because they see a lot of grunts arguing for it. You also forgot to mention that there are a couple saying let it be.

By the way, the some people who are arguing that they should be retconned is basically summarized as you, Flyingsquirrel, and a few peons.

Now, I wasn't talking about the peons.

Also notice how I said most of the people who complain about this have prestige classes. I stand by it. It's me noting that a lot of you have a prestige class of some kind. For instance, Dead Shot. RPG only, as far as I know. That means, there is no lore basis for them. So, shouldn't FlyingSquirrel lose Shivala's Prestige because of it?
Hell, how about the Graven Ones? They only exist in the WoW RPG books.
Even the Necromancer you play would be severely hindered since we don't use the D20 books anymore.

This isn't about picking and choosing what you want to use as it is convenient. You either use the D20 books entirely, or you do not use them at all. Which means, if your basis of getting the Living Death Knights retconned because they don't exist outside of those books, as you say, then start with the prestiges. Why don't you just work your way down the list for every little thing used here from those books?

See, I don't see you complaining about those. Why? Because it'd work against you. As far as I'm concerned, this is basically people complaining about something they don't like and using the opportunity to do away with it entirely.

Don't get offended and act hurt when I say this. It's how I see it.
And I just see whining about a minor flaw. Something most of you will never deal with unless you go actively looking for it.

[Reigen]

Make them a special profile is all I want. I do not want to retcon them, because that would be unfair to the players who had them approved. I do not want to stop allowing them because then people will see what they cannot have and will whine.

Everything else? Binkle said already.

[Adam255]

Make them a special profile is all I want. I do not want to retcon them, because that would be unfair to the players who had them approved. I do not want to stop allowing them because then people will see what they cannot have and will whine.

Everything else? Binkle said already.

Agreed, simple as that.

[Dragonbeard]

I think the special profile option is a good medium here. It is a win-win situation, really.

[flammos200]

...Finally, I can agree with something. And yeah, it should be a Special Profile.

...I sense a consensus. Although, I would not like old Profiles to have to be resubmitted.

Anyhow, I... can actually agree with Binkle, Reigen, Torches and dragonmad.

Just sayin'. They should be regulated a little. Just make them Special Profiles from now on, and be done with it.

The players that already have them approved keep on going with their personal storylines and don't need to retcon over a year of IC interaction.

And the players that'll make new ones'll face scrutiny, as does anyone that plays rare things like Runemasters, Necromancers, Nobles, Military commanders, and so on. That's what Special Profiles're for, after all. Rare stuff.

I'm actually glad to see that we can agree on something... I distinctly approve.

[Alykia]

A special profile is a good idea. But personally, I'd say let them whine.
They do have legitimate lore issues and thus shouldn't be role-played. The others are grandfathered in. Though I disagree with the reasoning behind not retconing [Heavily. Its only a few that play them and they are basically lore-breaking characters.], I understand it. Still, the problem should not be made bigger by allowing even more to be played.

Having them as special profiles is better then doing nothing.

[sunday12321]

I blame twilight for this.

[Drust]

Getting rid of them or simply making them a special profile, like others have pointed out, not such a big deal. So some people enjoy RPing a "living" deathknight, it's a pretty minor thing and yes some people may use it inappropriately, but it doesn't affect me or anyone else for that matter, it has not much to do with us unless we choose to get involved with that character.

Either way I see that some aren't simply going to sit around and allow others to simply RP something freely, so if anything a special profile is better then nothing at all.

[Alykia]

Yes. That's right. Lets allow people to rp freely.
In fact, why not throw the non-playable races list out the window and allow all players to rp dragons, vampires, worgen, pit lords, ext freely?
After all. If people are allowed to role play lore-breaking classes like a living death knight, then why cant they role play a vampire? After all Vampires exist in lore and it is just sucking off the energy of others. Isn't that what blood elf magi do anyway?
Characters should be able to role-play absolutely anything at all that they want and why cant people just see that and let them be?
^sarcasm

...

Allowing lore breaking and/or bending-to-the-point-of-breaking is a slippery slope.

If a line is going to be drawn, then it should be drawn and stuck to. Despite those that whine. If people want to rp 'freely', there are plenty of other servers that don't care about legitimacy and quality in rp that will allow them to.

CotH is original and stands out from other servers partially because of the quality of roleplay that is set for the server. This raises it above other servers and makes it an appealing place to role-play without the nekos, twilights and pretty princess mary sue characters. In fact this sets it above even the paid warcraft servers because they no longer care about roleplay quality and you will find anything on those servers.

Some people may think its 'mean' and 'horrible' for a server to be setting limitations on their roleplay. But tough deal. Its how things are kept within the lore and lines of the world they are playing in, Those 'mean' restrictions keeps the gameplay at a reflection of how mechanics work for that world, and enhances the 'realism' of that world, thus adding to the immersion and enjoyment for everyone, not just that one player.

When people see things that break lore, it breaks the level of immersion. They are not bitching to 'be mean' but because it doesn't fit in the world and gamers would like to keep that level of immersion because that's what draws them to the server.

/rant
[Edit: Alright. That may have seen a little over the top and I'm sorry but I had seen several 'let people rp freely' posts so felt the need to point out the issue with that.]

[Wuvvums]

I'd have to agree with the special profile too. It would also be good to apply it proactively instead of retroactively.

We actually had something happen like that before regarding undead high elves. However, in that situation the problem was that not all GMs knew whether or not they were allowed. This meant that some slipped past the radar accidentally, and while they were not allowed from that point out, the ones who already had it as part of their character didn't need to make revisions. Some may say it's unfair to others, but I do think it's even more unfair for people to have to undo a character they got passed because of an error, or change of policy.

That's my opinion, anyways. Now that I think of it I haven't seen a lot of living death knights that were profiled anyways.

[Drust]

Yes. That's right. Lets allow people to rp freely.
In fact, why not throw the non-playable races list out the window and allow all players to rp dragons, vampires, worgen, pit lords, ext freely?
After all. If people are allowed to role play lore-breaking classes like a living death knight, then why cant they role play a vampire? After all Vampires exist in lore and it is just sucking off the energy of others. Isn't that what blood elf magi do anyway?
Characters should be able to role-play absolutely anything at all that they want and why cant people just see that and let them be?
^sarcasm

There's a difference between allowing someone to play a living DK and allowing someone to play a dragon or something, look, people come here to enjoy themselves and RP, yes it would be messed up to allow them to play something really far fetched, but this? Really? Come on, if you don't like seeing living DK's then just turn your head... No one is forcing you to RP with them... I mean yeah if you see someone RPing as a vampire or worgen then blast away... But this, in my opinion, is minor. And I don't see how it has such an impact on other people RPing anyway.

Edit: Also, I don't think letting something like this slide will have that much of an impact on the server, the server is only as good as it's members, and I believe CotH is a brilliant server, with members who know where this "Line" truly is drawn.