Stormwind Divided

[ImagenAshyun]

I'm actually considering re-rolling a human character I thought he'd never find RP after his role was taken by another player. In addition, I'll throw Serena (who almost never finds RP) too as his secretary/assistant of sorts. He's a mafia/gang doctor, Dr. Geraldino "Dino" Galleani... and a doctor jerk. Serena herself is my creepy stalker girl with a predisposition to... being a creepy stalker (a "yandere", if you will).

I'll only bring him, or Serena, if either/both are welcome. I'd be very glad if they do, since both of them, especially Serena, needs more RP.

Sorry. A Silvermoon gang would be something nice to try out, but there's not enough Sin'dorei for a gang to be effective, and they'd be rooted out.

LOLWUT.

[McKnighter]

/nodnod, I understand. Doctors are good, since you can't exactly run to the Church of Stormwind for aid after murdering people. :3

And... I was talking about lore-wise! There's over two hundred thousand humans ICly in Stormwind, not to mention all the other races that are in there. Silvermoon got wiped out, and even though it's been a few years, I'd think military would be too tight to allow gangs like these form. But, I may be wrong. /shrug

[Beltharean]

States under military occupation are usually ripe with crime. People feel constrained, and when a general populace feels that way, they try to lash out by getting back the luxuries of their former lives. Gangs would likely end up being much more like the mafioso, smuggling goods to and from the city past guards. They'd likely butt heads if their sources of income overlap, but at the same time they could create conglomerates and coalitions and such.

[CappnRob]

Criminals in Silvermoon are pidgeonholed into Murder Row. Anywhere else, the soldiers will kill the hell out of them. Silvermoon guards are much less forgiving than Stormwind.

[Beltharean]

Guards aren't omnipotent like they seem to be IC. As someone who's grown up in the surf culture of Southern California I can definitely say that there's -way- more crime than you would expect to be going on, especially right under a cop's nose. Guards wouldn't know what was happening unless they somehow have super powers like X-Ray vision to see into houses, under peoples' clothes, or telepathy to read their minds. Just because it's crime doesn't mean it needs to be 'stupid' crime like stabbing someone in the middle of the street, or selling explicit substances on a corner. Honestly, I wouldn't expect that from an elf in the first place. They'd go for the much more eloquent approach, perhaps sabotaging a person's portal so that they end up in the middle of The Great Sea, or transporting their substances in the hollowed out body of a broken down Arcane Guardian that they're taking across the city, "For Repairs".

This isn't really the thread for this specific discussion however, as we seem to be somewhat derailing McKnighter's Stormwind Gang idea.

[McKnighter]

How dare you derail.

Anyhow, I suppose there are valid points. Once the Stormwind gangs run its course and given it was a success, perhaps I could shift my focus to the Silvermoon underground. :>

Anyhow, The Sons of Toxicity is the first gang to be accepted. You can find them on their guild post in the guild threads section of the forums.

Or just go to this link! http://www.conquestofthehorde.com/Thread...f-Toxicity

I'm looking for three more gangs before I'll close my support to other gang-related guilds in Stormwind. A man can only do so much.

An extra DM to oversee two of the four guilds would be great, if anyone is interested.

[ImagenAshyun]

As Trial GM, I can offer assistance in overseeing any of these gangs alongside any GM that decides to DM/supervise.

Given I have two characters whom I'm offering, I'd like to see all the gangs presented before I make a decision. Serena is open to anyone who takes her in, while Dr. Dino may either establish neutrality or join the gang with the biggest pay.

---

Anyhow, I suppose there are valid points. Once the Stormwind gangs run its course and given it was a success, perhaps I could shift my focus to the Silvermoon underground. :>

DO IT. Maybe the SW gangs can even build affiliations, especially if certain blood elf gang members has a history with humans.

[Herastean]

I'm really interested by this thing, sounds quite great!...
...
I'LL BE A GUARD BWAHAHAHA!

No really, I don't know if you'd be able to have enough players to form that many gangs, maybe 3 will be good. We can think one one for the old/dwarves squares, one for the cathedral and trade as you said and one for mage, elf and harbor.

Would be easier for the gangs to control their territory : only 2 bridges by side to access rival areas, and also to gather more persons in one faction.

I'd really like to see this happens, I'd like to make one of my characters a guard and I believe that GMs would be interested in making the guards on again.

[Sourpuddle]

As someone who's experimented and theorized this idea thoroughly, you must understand that Stormwind already has various crime syndicates developed. What I propose you do is simply bring them out and have them represented by the players. It is a common misconception that there is only one gang in Stormwind, just as one may think that there are no gangs in Silvermoon. The truth of the matter is that there are dozens upon dozens, however it is impractical to have them all represented in the world provided to us by Blizzard; that's where we come in.

It's important to leave the largest two groups to NPC's and for Game Masters to have primary control over since these two groups will have the most power in Stormwind:

The Reds

The Defias is so much in numbers and power, it is thoroughly represented by Blizzard and serves as a general represenative and example for crime in Stormwind City. It's boundries go beyond that of simply Stormwind and have created an intricate circle of various crimes. The Defias are generally despised by smaller chain gangs, but they're respected among the community of criminals.

The Grays

The Grays are the nicknames given to the Guards, but it generally refers to the government in itself. The Grays are extremely powerful in their organization, training and in their position of legal power. This force is quelled by the need to uphold the law and restricts them to retaining rather than killing on sight.

Another group may arguably be the Syndicate, but realistically their presence in Stormwind is nominal in comparison to the other two. It is also important to note that direct war with either of these two groups is suicidal, and is best that they are treated indirectly in almost all cases.

- - -

There are, unfortunately, a lot of people here who don't know what they're talking about and are giving very impractical and (reasonably) unintelligible advice, or atleast from the level that I am used to.

If you want my "professional" opinion, which I merit with experience in this realm of RolePlay, I believe that giving a whole district to a single guild is too much; fractionalize districts and have guilds control it as "turf". If the turf runs across whole districts, there are several problems with that; lack of representation by the Guards and Defias (AKA, controlling the whole Old Town district by one gang would mean that the military fort there is on that gangs turf) and also it would delay conflict and minimize friction (things get hotter when you're compressed in a tighter space). Let guilds gain power by the willingness of the players rather than having to use NPC's and be open to character death, torture, and so on. Make sure guilds are SMALL and LOCAL, because if they're big, then they're infringing lore by implying major signifigance. If it challenges half of the power of the Defias, it needs to be nerfed.

Your best bet, and most successful bet will be in Old Town, where crime is already rampant; the Mages district is complicated because of the large population of intelligent magic-wielders and scholars who either don't have the time for crime (via studying) or are busy commiting high crimes beyond the normal spectrum of a non-magic wielder. Warlocks are notorious in the region for having connections to criminal operations, however they are met with distrust, probably because most dolts who are silly enough to trust a Warlock become an experiment, or are fed to some nasty experiment, or worse love (light term) in a masochistic form, which is often imposed upon without consent. The Dwarven District is more than likely one of the first places thought to be a crime hotspot, but in reality, when examining Dwarven culture and how they deal with their criminals (severely), it is unlikely that it is spewing gangs; at the most, I believe there would be gangs occupying the southern portion of the Dwarven District, as to represent its origins from Old Town. The Trade District is enforced very tightly; gang presence there is not likely at all, unless they take presence as a company. The thing about the Trade District is that it's where all the money is; if it is economically unstable due to crime, then Stormwind will falter. The presence of the guard is magnified by the two high ranking guards who sit in the center of it, and generally represents that the only real crime in the area that happens is in the alley ways or in private residences and warehouses, which don't make good for gang locations since they can be checked (and will be) as a counterstrike against smuggling. The Harbour is contested territory (as is Old Town) between the Grays and various criminal organizations, but is segregated from the rest of the city in a way and is better seen as an auxillary location until we have a sufficient presence of gangs. The Park is a questionable entity; I would assume most gangs would avoid it, knowing that if they interfere with the political relationship between the Elves and Humans, the Grays will be very protective. Ventures probably come with mixed results, but more than probably are less profitable; Night Elves, contrary to popular belief, are not very fond of capitalism nor the crime in general.

If you're considering being serious about crime in Stormwind, it's a subject I've touched. Terms such as the "Stromgarde Smile"

Spoiler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Smile

or the "Booty Bay Bowtie"

Spoiler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_necktie

can be used to ensure realism is cupped in place, and to add more colour to the environment. Different gangs that centralize on a specific crime; pimping, slaving, smuggling, murdering, stealing, information, bruising, torturing, bribing-- Although, it's important to keep in mind that the gang should be well rounded in some sense of the form.

Regardless to whether you read, or use what I've provided, know that it's been tested, proved and is, from what I know, the most mature and realistic method.

In any case, I'll (re)make Tenissa (infamous criminal mind/flamboyant pimp) to be the general IC guru for your characters to ask advice and so on. His vast connections, which gangs can take advantage of, will extend the ability to assassinate, buy drugs in bulk, etc. Just make sure I know he's wanted. If anyone else wants to take a similar role, you can contact me by PM and discuss creating a guild for this as a sort of glue for the rest; the "elites" of special skill criminals who don't need to seriously associate themselves with a single gang, but band together to maximize connections and keep the gears running. It's a much lower priority relative to the gang guilds, but it requires larger amounts of experience and intuitiveness.

EDIT: Re-read, I forgot to mention the harbour, park and Warlocks.

[Rosencrat]

See, the only problem I can see with this idea (Which I adore) is abuse. Whenever we relax the role of guards, no matter the city, we open the way for abuse.

For this idea to succeed the current rules on the omnipotence of the guards will be relaxed. While I'm sure the four guilds will be lead by reasonable people who understand that their criminal enterprises must be covert, the relaxed nature of the guards will open the way for certain players to begin acting out their violent proclivities in an area classically known as 'safe'.

"I just saw a group mug someone in an alleyway!" whines the blood-soaked Death Knight amidst the bodies of three players. "It's unfair that they are allowed to commit crimes and I'm not!"

Solve that problem, however, and this idea has my full support - and I shall even help out!

EDIT: Also...

A few ideas for gangs that have came to my mind is a Communism/Commoner's Party-like gang

Oh you.

I have no energy within me (Nor, honestly, the desire) to -lead- a Commoner's Party-styled guild. However, if someone else has the desire to run it I would be more than happy to help out and kick Valira, the amoral politician, back into the world of RPing.

[Xigo]

Briefly ignoring the post by a 'professional roleplayer' two posts above me, a potential issue with this would potentially be the size of Stormwind. It's just far too small in-game. It'd be totally awesome if it weren't so small, but it is. We don't have back-alleys in Stormwind save in like three places, and we don't have anything that isn't connected to a main road in some way. It's very streamlined.

[McKnighter]

Sourpuddle, I thank you for your advice. I have toyed with the concept, and I decided that it would be better for each gang to have their own district, simply for the fact because that in game, Stormwind is tiny compared to what it should be. If Old Town was given its proper site, I'd have everyone start off in there.

As for the restriction of other districts, I'm not going to say "No, you can't." to any gang that desires to make a foot-holding in the Cathedral or Trade Districts. Though, as a note, it's going to be a very difficult task given that one area is overseen by the Church of Stormwind, and the other has as you said, the Captain of the Guard and given that there's a lot of guards there already. But, if the gangs are clever enough to move in on the district without drawing too much attention to themselves and/or not getting caught, then perhaps they'll get a piece of that district.

I plan for the Trade District to be the 'front' of all the gangs operations. Once their home district is settled into and they have a thumb on what's profitable there, I assume they'll be heading to the Trade District. One gang can 'occupy' the Lion's Inn and extort the inn keeper there, possibly running a drug racket out of it, and another gang does the same with a few more stores. One could even just sit in one of the unguarded allley-ways, and try to run a mugging operation.

Anyhow, all that will be consider further, as the gangs begin to form.


As for Rosencrat's worry, I'll simply answer your example with what I would do as the DM.

For one, you're a Death Knight. You're already on thin ice as it is, and you have the guard's attention already because you're undead, walking in Stormwind, most likely in full plate and a giant runeblade sword. If you even harm one human wrongfully, the Ebon Knights will abandon you or even hunt you down. Not to mention the guards would love the chance to kill a former member of the Scourge. So, I would not suggest being a Death Knight unless you're rather adapt at hiding what you are. Which is hard.

I echo what Xigo's says.

[ImagenAshyun]

To deal with the size issue I propose either the following:

1.) Make the base of operations elsewhere for either gang. Maybe Westfall, Duskwood, etc. How and where that will be are up to you entirely.

2.) Make SW as only the base of operations but expand crime to other locations. Perhaps they have territory in the above locations, or they even go as far as Ironforge.


That's all I can really think of as the size issue.

[Dareksar]

The Brotherhood actually had activity all around Azeroth, not very big, but still. And I have also dreamed of such things as;

<Sons of Toxicity SMC> and <Sons of Toxicity IF>, believe it or not!

[CappnRob]

The issue of abuse can be solved by application of common sense. There is no objective solution, and honestly we don't need one. Good criminal RPers should not have their RP limited because a dumbass DK wants to murder half of a city. Punish the bad RPer, and when he complains why X got to do Y, present to him how X wasn't an idiot and how he, in fact, is.

Whiners gonna whine. Don't see why that should impede the rest of our fun.