Stormwind Divided

[Rosencrat]

The issue of abuse can be solved by application of common sense.

'Common Sense' is a fickle thing that varies from person to person. For someone, it's common sense to be able to slaughter a king and then jump through a portal. And for others, its common sense to draw someone into the shadows and mug them.

It's not in any of the GM's hands to relax the Guard Omnipotence. You'll have to ask an Admin if it would be alright to allow 'crime' in a city where we have historically declined to allow it.

[CappnRob]

Common sense as it adheres to the rules the server has established. No matter how you slice it, there's a world of difference between crime gangs, and murdering a king before yoinking through a portal.

[Sourpuddle]

Common sense as it adheres to the rules the server has established. No matter how you slice it, there's a world of difference between crime gangs, and murdering a king before yoinking through a portal.

Unfortunately, this problem is not new and has been around years. What Rosencrat is trying to explain is that common sense is a relative value that will expand upon a playerbase who tends to either be cynically inclined, socially incompetant or radically thinking. It's not that the value of common sense is not quantifiable, but rather that we believe that given the social groups, ideology of the average and influentual individuals and a myraid of other elements that the system of "common sense" is an ineffective solution to the problem at hand. If our community would emulate the capacity to be mature, intelligent, creative and realistic regarding character conceptualization, conflict tensions, sociopolitical competance and realization of the power the common guard wields, than we would already have players being guards. It doesn't, and until it does, the solution you're proposing isn't likely to work. It's good that you brought up the element of common sense, though, because it is a very real solution to the problem, only that the environment is not going to be able to follow through. For that, I thank thee.

it would be better for each gang to have their own district, simply for the fact because that in game, Stormwind is tiny compared to what it should be.

Your funeral, bro. I'm still in, and I appreciate you taking my experience into consideration.

As for the restriction of other districts, I'm not going to say "No, you can't."

I mean, if they can make it happen, they can make it happen. No arguement there.

[quote]Briefly ignoring the post by a 'professional roleplayer' two posts above me

It's just far too small in-game.

So, you'll control the inn as your turf, I'll be racketeering the armour and leather sellers because they're shops are on my turf, the Grays got the fort, the middle is the contested/free zone, another guy has the weapon shops under his little circulation-- But hey, I guess I'm the only one thinking "without shoulderpads" in a much more complex way.

Make the base of operations elsewhere for either gang. Maybe Westfall, Duskwood, etc. How and where that will be are up to you entirely.

Westfall is considerable, but the gang's presence would have to tolerate the Defias since they dominate the drug, slave and weapon circulation. The Militia are much more prone to kill on sight, as well.

Duskwood is extremely impractical; it's used primarily by the crime world to lay low until the steam they've created can be blown over. Otherwise, they face the constant threat of undeads and worgen with the gang members only experience in fighting in urban areas.

Redridge is calmer, and Orc attacks are often quelled by the guards, but one must consider the closeness of the community and their lack of tolerance towards using their guards to jail criminals rather than fight Orcs, which are a primary concern.

Goldshire is a hub for br-- Oh, nevermind.

Either way, if a gang can make it happen, and it's realistic, proportional and seals the deal, then there really should be no objection. They just need to make sure they keep the facts in mind.

[Leethoof]

This could make for very exciting roleplay. Would non-humans (still on alliance, of course) be allowed?

[McKnighter]

Gnomes and dwarfs would most certainly be allowed.

Night Elves and Draenei, however... Better have a -very- good reason to join a criminal gang. I'll go as far as to say that Draenei shouldn't join.

[Grogloki]

If this idea gets approved ect. I would be more than happy to partake in creating a gang. There are alot of good ideas here they just need the touch of our amazing GM staff to give them "law and order" + a playable direction. I do see the downside here in that people -will- abuse the guard bribe system. It happens lol not anyones fault it just would. But all that technical crap aside I absolutely love the idea of a "Warriors" type of RP style city.

[McKnighter]

A quick update, two more gangs are in the works.

If you my support, and you have a gang idea, hurry and submit it to me. I'll only be taking one more gang in before I have to close my personal aid for your guild.

[ImagenAshyun]

Dr. Dino will remain gang-faction neutral or loyal to the highest bidder. I'm actually interested in a scenario where members of opposing gangs try to get care from him at the same time.

[Zenethen]

If this idea is approved, I am totally bringing back Barregis Jones as Salmo West in 'The Western Cookery', Stormwind's not-so-legal assassins contract agency.

... That is, of course, if I have a new computer by that time.

[Sourpuddle]

Dr. Dino will remain gang-faction neutral or loyal to the highest bidder. I'm actually interested in a scenario where members of opposing gangs try to get care from him at the same time.

That's basically what Tenissa will do for the services he provides, which more or less, provide gangs with illegal drugs, arms or "special workers" (arsonists, assassins, etc.) Tenissa and Dino should probably know eachother eventually.

[ImagenAshyun]

Dr. Dino will remain gang-faction neutral or loyal to the highest bidder. I'm actually interested in a scenario where members of opposing gangs try to get care from him at the same time.

That's basically what Tenissa will do for the services he provides, which more or less, provide gangs with illegal drugs, arms or "special workers" (arsonists, assassins, etc.) Tenissa and Dino should probably know eachother eventually.

Dino is rolled as a rogue and is also an alchemist. Poisons and drugs are his specialty. He'll probably get along with Tenissa.... MAYBE. He's a grump and a jerk towards anyone who is male but softens up (if only by a little) around women.

[Xigo]

Perhaps it would be easier to not limit this to just Stormwind.

How about gangs, with each one starting with a 'hold' in a settlement. They all then go about trying to uproot one another from their respective settlements, take over the underground of new holdings (and bring in more income), and increase their power and influence as far as criminal organizations go. While they won't be of Defias level, they will perhaps become somewhat known.

This way it doesn't necessarily need to be 'humans only', nor does it need to be restricted to the tight layout of Stormwind. (Which would probably remain 'neutral' along with other faction cities, due to increased security).

Thoughts?

[Rosencrat]

I think the idea of keeping it to a city should be kept. It maintains the appropriate atmosphere and, most importantly, ensures that the groups are role-playing together.

The appeal of this idea is that we're re-creating the classic 'gang' culture, the kind of stuff portrayed in movies like Gangs of New York and old Mob films. This is turn-of-the-century thuggery at its best, and broadening it out to encompass settlements and the like dilute it's appeal. It turns from the petty squabbling of down-trodden individuals who have turned to crime to maintain life to the romanticized crime of petty feudal lords or the digital challenges of real-time strategy games.

I wouldn't support this idea if we chose to broaden it out so drastically. Keep it to the system that worked and drew so much attention.

[Holynexus]

Hey, I quite support this idea, but isn't there the risk of having Chigago-esque open fights ni the streets of SW? I mean, beyond the Old Town..

[ImagenAshyun]

I think the idea of keeping it to a city should be kept. It maintains the appropriate atmosphere and, most importantly, ensures that the groups are role-playing together.

The appeal of this idea is that we're re-creating the classic 'gang' culture, the kind of stuff portrayed in movies like Gangs of New York and old Mob films. This is turn-of-the-century thuggery at its best, and broadening it out to encompass settlements and the like dilute it's appeal. It turns from the petty squabbling of down-trodden individuals who have turned to crime to maintain life to the romanticized crime of petty feudal lords or the digital challenges of real-time strategy games.

I wouldn't support this idea if we chose to broaden it out so drastically. Keep it to the system that worked and drew so much attention.

Turn of the Century-styled gangs (or just period gangs) appeal to me moreso than the gangs of today.... mostly because modern gangs hit just a leetle too close to home (I love/hate you, LA).

The thing is, if we're going to by the above mentioned style of crime, there'd have to be a socio-economic reason why they do this. In the Prohibition era, gangs rose to deal with the outlawing of alcohol. During the 1900's, it's because of the major influx of immigrants that caused a rift in the already crumbling social balance between the nativists and immigrants (and, of course, ethnic/nation-based groups such as the Irish vs the Italians). In modern-day Los Angeles--actually, let's not go there. Really.

How would we propose as the reason behind SW's gangs? Oppression by the guards? King Varian? Maybe they feel trade and economy isn't going their favor? Just something to consider, and perhaps lore-appropriate.