Invisible NPCs and -you-.

[Sol]

My Blademaster Kag'rin commands nothing but roughly twenty men, the approximate number of players in the Deadeye Watchers. I feel that's enough.

Then again, I have Malachai who is second-in-command of the Black Harvest.

I'm not sure why that's relevant to the topic. The Black Harvest only has as many people under its command as there are player characters active within the guild, which varies with each passing week. The guild's huge, but it's hardly something to gloat about, given that the Harvest have absolutely no authority outside of its PCs. /shrug

I agree with McKnighter, regardless. I'm concerned by the seemingly growing number of characters without specially approved profiles behaving as though they have extensive NPC support. I'd say the ability to hire a couple of offscreen servants or mercenaries is well within the reach of the average character, but anything bigger than that requires some GM input.

Ciaphas has a platoon of twenty or so under his command too. Blood Knight Masters, represent! /highfive

[Rowgen]

. . . Should probably elaborate a bit more.

What I mean is that you can achieve a lot without invisible NPCs, too. Apart from filling spots that people rarely roll for (servants, peons, etc.), I don't see much use for invisible NPCs, unless they're belonging to Nobles. Then I can see their use, somewhat.

[Zarquon]

I am probably the worst of you all, because...

Spoiler:

Craer has a black cat for an invisible NPC.

[requiem225]

I personally don't see much of a problem with them, so long as they make RP sense, they are not persistent, and it add a small amount of RP Flair.

For example: A commander of a small detachment (Likely a guild leader) receiving a message from an invisible NPC messenger, a noble having his invisible NPC servants set the table for him and his guests or an innkeeper having an invisible NPC kitchen staff in the background seem fine to me. It makes RP sense to the situation, they are not meant to be persistent (as in they don't fully interact with other players), and it adds RP flair.

However, having a persistent invisible NPC bodyguard follow a noble around, or or a pirate whom's ship is crewed by invisible NPC would bother me.

But that is my 2 cents.

[Holynexus]

The same, I'd just cut the line when NPCs get to powergaming. If they make sense, they should be put in.


It also includes guards in cities breaking off fights. If it gets hairy OOC, by all means, NPCs should be revoked and/or a GM should step in to administrate the situation. After all, it's still something akin to powergaming if people don't agree to their presence.

I usually have "passersby" NPCs that don't get in the RP, other than adding flavor (populating an otherwise empty but ICly very busy place with sideways encounters), too. Those don't REALLY get involved with the main party, other than maybe triggering a response (think, two dwarves carrying a barrel on the opposite street in Stormwind, or a Sin'dorei selling magical artefacts on the other end of the area in Silvermoon). I seldom roleplay directly involved NPCs, unless the situation dictates so (a maid carrying Drena's stuff away as she rests, kicking off the RP with the PC dwarves present).

NPCs that appear out of thin air, or are just big deus-ex-machina, are obviously very out of place, or act in ways that players don't OOCly agree with should however be revoked from the RP or at least have their actions retconned, of course, it's a big rule of CotH I suppose.

Common sense prevails, in the end!

[Spiky]

Now this is a good topic still, and as a player of a Warlord within the Horde, I can honestly say I've only ever said / referred to the number under Teztez' command when people would RP the Stronghold as empty, which it isn't. I've later then created an actual 'grunt' character that served at the Stronghold for people to challenge if they wished. I have yet to RP any real group of NPC's that walk around with Teztez, despite his title. I imagine he has a group of maybe 40 grunts and peons with him currently at the Stronghold, but again ,I've never used them besides describing the population of the Stronghold, the grunts and peons, as well as the few trolls that actually serve Teztez in his Tribe.

[Harmonic]

The only time I remember using invisible NPC's, so to speak, would be in the in character forums. If I write something about my character, such as arena fights, or... any sort of fights, or interactions that show my characters views and standpoints on life... I'll use as many different people as I can to do so. I do this because you can't always get someone to be that person that gives you a certain conflict or that can be that one-sentance/one post person that only impacts my character in one little way.

This to me is where a story writing element comes into play. There's interaction with people, and there's also how -you- as a player develop your character.






However, if you're writing about an invisible army, or an NPC that regularly occurs in your plots... well.

Armies are best handled by GMs. When you're in control of a mass of NPC's, things could get out of hand, and it could go into that big ol' category of "You probably shouldn't be doing that." Invisible armies sort of remind me of the idea of an "e-peen" too, a method of one-upping those around you. Oh? You're powerful huh? Well I lead an army? What army? THE ONE BEHIND ME DUH. Oh? You've got five player characters that are going to fight me? WELL I HAVE THE HUNS AT MY BACK, you just can't see them. Fighting me would be foolish!

See? That's kind of silly, and only in the case of GMs should this be used, and then it'd be used mostly in the case of "Five people can't do that.", like if someone was trying to siege Orgrimmar.


As for recurring NPC's, if you have a butler that keeps making an appearance, or you regularly add in staff... might be a good time to put up a personal and ask for people to take the role. Nothing wrong with adding in those characters for flavor for a while, but if you get too involved with characters aside from the one you're actually playing, well, then it -can- get confusing to others.


Another thing is children. When it comes to invisible NPC's, this one takes the cake. You -have- to do this, practically, since no one can play an underage character. It's not unreasonable to think that some of the characters have... well, given birth. So it's not out of this world for them to have children. In this case, it's best that people don't revolve things around said child, but can allude to having one that may be in the care of someone else. Truth be told, if you had a little little baby... chances are you wouldn't be walking to bars or going into battle carrying one at your hip, you'd be -caring- for that child, unless someone was again doing it for you.


Sometimes, if you're trying to do some roleplay... you have to fight an invisible mob. I find this useful, because players can't directly control or spawn NPC's (Not saying they should be able to, I'm saying that we should continue using this method). So, sometimes we have to use our imagination to put together a creature fight in order to curb the boredom of... whatever. You know where I was going there, I hope!


So, in short? Invisible NPC's are always needed in some form or another. HOW THEY ARE HANDLED is another story. There are instances where it's better to be... discreet, and know your limit. However, that again is something that's been brought up over and over. There should be an amount of common sense with this sort of thing, where if you're saying to yourself "will this be awkward? Will this piss people off? Will this piss GM's off? Am I lightly breaking rules?". If you are, chances are you need to -stop-, and look at what you are doing. That people, is common sense kicking in, and telling you WOAH BUDDY, you might be doin' something crappy here.


Use discretion. Don't avoid doing it. Don't sigh at everyone that does, because it can be necessary. Bring a towel. Listen to common sense. And have fun.

[muhaha8]

Bring a towel.

Spoiler: