Grakor Grumbles: Race/Class Expansions

[Krent]

Also, go away, Norell already made the get-rich-quick First New Goblin Church of Gol, Ver, and Ron and that failed. Don't need no mogul stealing his plans.

Moguls do not steal. They simply engage in aggressive re-branding of tried and true market product ideas that are subject to differing patents! Tooootally different.

Also, one thing to consider (in regards to Troll Warlocks, or frankly anything-warlock).

Just because an individual character becomes an X, doesn't necessarily have to mean that their respective society has to like or even condone it. Some race/class combos would be heavily ostracized by their respective society, but that doesn't necessarily mean the individual player character wouldn't have the ability to be that.

For example--a Troll Warlock. I don't think it's too much of a stretch of the imagination to think that a troll would be seduced by the powers of the Fel. Fel, by it's very nature, is a very enticing power designed to corrupt all those who follow it. And the Darkspear Trolls aren't exactly an isolated society; ever since joining the Horde, they've been kind of kicking it with a mix of peoples. They've probably encountered and fought against Warlock cults and the like. Hell, many of the orcs they've been hanging around with either were, or still are, warlocks themselves.

So, I don't think it's too crazy to imagine a troll becoming intrigued by demonology. That, and I'm sure they'd be able to study it on their own.

Now--would the rest of that troll's society like that? Hellllllll no! The moment that troll decides to turn his back on the Loa and embrace the Fel, he becomes an ostracized reject of his society. Other trolls would probably gasp in shock, turn him away, and maybe even potentially try to murder him, for being a warlock.

I imagine being a warlock in general gets a character this treatment. It isn't something one can walk around in public, being all "LOOK AT ME I AM A WARLOCK MERRILY SKIPPING AROUND TOWN WITH MY DEMON PAAAAALS!"

Also, on the topic of Orc Paladins--I don't see this as too crazy, either. I mean, I dunno about all that Spirit Champion stuff or Ancestral power..but I do know that the Argent Crusade has a few orcs in it. And I know that the Argent Crusade has a lot of light-worshippers in it. It doesn't seem too crazy that an orc who joins the Argent Crusade might end up becoming a worshiper of the Light (perhaps as a way of Ancestor honoring?). And certainly, orcs posses both the mental and physical fortitude necessary to be a paladin.

Again, like I said--I don't think a potential Paladin Orc would be embraced or welcomed by his society. I think most traditional orcs would raise eyebrows at a Paladin Orc's rambling on the Holy Light, and then proceed to scoot away from him.

Look--what I'm trying to get at, is an "unusual" Race/Class combo shouldn't be impossible, but anyone who wishes to pursue them should definitely have to think about the consequences and conflicts that character would have to face. It should be a very carefully considered thing.

Which I'm all for, 'cause thinking about it creates a lot of good potential for some RP scenarios.

[Joe2618]

I for one think this is an excellent idea. The game is set in a fantasy realm so the sky is the possibility. I agree that almost any race/class could work with the exception of one. This being the Draenei/Warlock combo. The whole existence of the Draenei is against the concept of fel after all. So how would this work exactly? You couldn't play an Ereder as they would have mutated beyond what the Draenei's physical features are. I don't know, maybe an Argus born 'pretended' to flee to keep tabs on the Draenei for Archimonde?

[Dizzyeye]

Draenei are that odd case since that is the one thing their community is based on. A draenei simply wouldn't willingly become a warlock. Willingly. After all there are somethings that aren't planned for. The High Elves didn't willingly choose to take fel, they had to feed their addiction or die.

Perhaps if people were creative enough, they could forge a story which leads to a character getting to a point their peers would disagree with. What if a Draenei was forced to absord fel magic or tried to find a weakness inside a demon?

To put it bluntly: if you can create a logical story to explain where and how and why their character reached this point it's good to me.

[Joe2618]

That makes sense actually...Let's say a Draenei mage was trying to protect her race from who knows what...The legion or something else. The only way to be strong enough to fend off the thing attempting to kill their friends/family would be to absorb fel and become a Warlock. Or at least something of that nature. Good point.

[Grakor456]

Draenei are that odd case since that is the one thing their community is based on. A draenei simply wouldn't willingly become a warlock. Willingly.

http://wowpedia.org/Sargerei

Welcome to Warlords of Draenor, leave your sanity and everything you thought you knew about orcs and draenei at the door.

[Hawk]

People may groan, but... I would love to see a Troll Paladin. A Shadowhunter ability is that they can smite the Undead through Bwonsamdi. It could be expanded upon as a Bwonsamdi's Disciple or something. Iunno, just an idea I felt like putting out there. :P

[Dizzyeye]

Draenei are that odd case since that is the one thing their community is based on. A draenei simply wouldn't willingly become a warlock. Willingly.

http://wowpedia.org/Sargerei

Welcome to Warlords of Draenor, leave your sanity and everything you thought you knew about orcs and draenei at the door.

One reason I left retail: I'm not putting money towards insanity.

[Grakor456]

Anything paladin? Pls no. Sunwalker was a stretch already and is already confirmed by Blizzard to be an OOC class meant to represent something else entirely in lore. Same for shamans. These are both classes that are designed to fit into a race's culture and spirituality, passed down by generations as heritage.

Let me talk about this for a moment...I kept meaning to but I always forgot when I was replying to someone else.

I get why you say this. Really, I do. But I have a major problem with it, too...and that's mostly because Blizzard themselves don't treat these classes this way. The obvious example of Tauren Paladin is one thing (and I imagine some races would receive the same treatment under this proposal, not being "true" paladins but instead being something different with similar results.) I have another one for you, though, that really disarms this:

Draenei Shaman.

As the lore was written in BC, Shamanism is completely, 100% disconnected from the Draenei faith that they had for hundreds of thousands of years. It only came as a burst of inspiration from some random Broken and then spread through other draenei for reasons. Mostly because Alliance needed a shaman and Blizzard wanted to pointlessly rewrite the race from scratch. Shaman are just tacked on last minute...in the same way Tauren Paladins and Priests are.

Gripes at Blizzard's writing of the Draenei lore aside, the point is this: while some classes may have special spiritual and/or cultural significance to certain races, that doesn't mean that said significance is actually a requirement to become that class. Yes, it's harder with the "religious" classes, but obviously there are more ways to interpret these classes than just a multi-generational expression of faith.

That's my opinion, though. I'm not trying to stomp your opinion, I just am willing to see more leniency on these things at the moment.

Remember, I'm gauging opinions here. If you disagree, feel free to post that you do. That goes to everyone. I can't take your criticisms into account without you voicing them, and I respond to them to start discussion, not to discount them.

[MstrCorvus]

I am 100% behind this idea as long as, as many people have said before me, they make sense. Even if it seems a bit outlandish to people who don't want to tamper with things, there are some opportunities to expand on class/race combos.

E.g. I think a Night Elf Paladin sort makes sense. Before I get jumped on about this, let me elaborate. If there are Elven Priestesses of the Moon, why wouldn't there be Warriors of the Moon or some such? Take a Priestess, put her in some armor and train her in combat and boom, lore-friendly Night Elf paladin. I mean, look at the PotM Unit from Warcraft 3. They didn't sit around temples wearing robes and praying. They were out fighting in armor and riding Frostsabers into battle.

The priestesses of the moon epitomize the power and grace of their race's ancient moon goddess, Elune. The priestesses of the moon, equipped with silvery, glowing armor, ride the fearless Winterspring Frostsabers into battle.

So, that's just an example I could think of quickly but there are plenty more race/class combos that could be done with a little elbow grease and imagination.

[CappnRob]

Draenei are that odd case since that is the one thing their community is based on. A draenei simply wouldn't willingly become a warlock. Willingly.

http://wowpedia.org/Sargerei

Welcome to Warlords of Draenor, leave your sanity and everything you thought you knew about orcs and draenei at the door.

Hey, at least they're a villain faction. I'm honestly ok with Sargerei.

Now PLAYABLE draenei warlocks... >:||||

[Krilari]

As it's been said in Grakor's forst post, we're not really going to limit anything exactly. A Forsaken Druid or a Tauren Warlock might be fairly difficult to describe, but if you could make a good story and cause for it then you have an equally good chance of seeing it approved. So with the system we currently have in mind we wouldn't outright say "No, you can't have your human shaman." Moreso, "Prove to us that you can make it work."

[c0rzilla]

...Eh. With Krilari's response, I have to say I'm against this now.

[Krilari]

Why so? Explaining your opposition helps this out all the more.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I have to agree with c0r. WoW's lore is too expansive to really be able to discount anything at all. I feel like we should go through each race individually and point out what makes sense from a lore perspective, and then what doesn't necessarily make sense but has multiple different sources citing it for lore, and allow those. For example, let me use the Dwarves.

Plate; Warrior, Paladin and Death Knight are already allowed. So, nothing would change.
Mail; Same with Hunter and Shaman.
Leather; Rogues are allowed, but not Druids, and for good reason. Firstly, the Dwarves don't really have good relations with any of the members of Cenarion Circles, bar maybe a few special cases with Night Elves. The same could be argued for the Trolls, but the Dwarves don't have anything like the Loa to give them something like Druidism. So, no Dwarven Druids.
Cloth; They have all the classes here, so they'd be clear.

[Krilari]

Remember, with this we're braving into custom lore, so part of the point is to make up new reasons why a certain class combo would work.

You could explain an orc paladin within the confines of WoW lore by saying they followed the Argent Crusade's teachings on the light. However that's, honestly, boring. A different way that our custom lore allows is to say Orc Paladins are an organization of spiritual warriors blessed to carry out the will of their ancestors.

Of course there are quite a few that would not need to be made complicated by WoW lore. Blood Elves are already familiar with nature magic with their farstriders. It takes only a leap more to fit in the druid clique with the help of the Cenarion Circle.