Grakor Grumbles: Race/Class Expansions

[Grakor456]

What would you say for classes that really can't be explained in all too many ways? I.E., Druids. I can't really see any other races being taught it through the Cenarion Circle, as (from what we've seen) they haven't really been too pro-active in recruitment. It was Night Elves and Tauren originally IIRC, with the Worgen added in because they felt guilty and the Trolls added in because they already basically knew it, so they might as well keep the trade secrets together.

Druids are weird.

On the one hand, "nature caster" is such a general idea that it shouldn't be as heavily restricted as it is. A lot of other races have "closer to nature" themes going on for them but don't have druid as a class, for whatever reason (blood elves and orcs are the most obvious).

On the other, the Cenarion Circle is some organization that apparently deals with all druids in the history of ever.

Druidism has expanded, though, and I don't see reason why it can't again.

An orc that uses the ancestors to help fight is a -Spirit Champion-. Which are warriors... with light to NO armor. Their powers manifest as premonitions and supernatural evasion/attack techniques. There is nothing in line with them as "paladins". Sunwalkers at least have the Light = Fire analogy to work with.

This wasn't intended to replace the original spirit champion idea (though that concept was de-canonized with the d20.) It's not even a finalized concept, just a random idea used as an example. That said, I know some folks wanted to see a way to play orc spiritual casters that focused on the ancestral magic side of things, rather than the elements. (Personally, I've no interest in playing any of the combinations specifically mentioned so far, so take that for what it's worth.)

You know, speaking of Spirit Champions and such, there was a ruling a while ago that made them Orc and Tauren only. Would this effectively nullify that ruling, then? I know there was a big commotion for Horde to maintain some of their cultural identity and keep Draenei/Dwarfs from moving in on their turf. Spirit walkers, too.

No. Again, the idea is not to dilute the races, but to expand their current cultures. That -would- be dilution.

[Xigo]

Spoiler:

Joking aside, I think the problem with this sort of thing is that it becomes a 'I have a concept for this weird combination, I will fight for this to be a potential thing'. The only three I can sincerely think of being possible with little-to-no dispute, are...

Worgen Paladin -- Trained post-transformation (actually, if a worgen became a paladin would he revert to being a normal human?)
Gnome Paladin -- Gnomes worship 'The Light' just as the Draenei, Dwarves, and Humans do. There's no reason they can't be Paladins.
Gnome Hunter -- Gnomes and guns. That's about it.

I fear this sort of thing will turn into a 'I want Blood Elf Druids' or whatever you have, and there will be bickering over 'cultural flavor' and what not. I'm going to stay out of these discussions because I don't really have much to add (as I think Blizzard was pretty spot-on with the classes in Cataclysm) other than...

Please don't open up everything to everyone. I really don't want Draenei Warlocks.

[Sol]

Undead druids pls.

Decay and rebirth is a natural part of life.

[c0rzilla]

Undead druids pls.

Decay and rebirth is a natural part of life.

So why aren't you in the ground? >:V

[Sol]

Undead druids pls.

Decay and rebirth is a natural part of life.

So why aren't you in the ground? >:V

Why aren't you in the kennel? >8V

[Mathias]

Don't make me send you two back to Gilneas.

[c0rzilla]

...But, seriously. No undead druids or shamans, please. The undead are cut off from nature, and nature abhors them.

THAT ASIDE--

...I can see a Forsaken alchemist or some such going the way of High Botanist Freywinn, forcing natural magics with arcane and alchemy. Or mimicking. Experimenting to grow abominations of plants and mushrooms, stitching animals together.

[Sol]

They're also cut off from the Light, and the Light abhors them.

WHAT NOW

[c0rzilla]

The Light is also a spiritual power that druidism is incomparable to. The Light goes "ok" if you're a good person, and/or have faith. Nature, being amoral, doesn't care if you're Saint Greenleaf the Squirrel Master, recently turned Forsaken.

[Mathias]

Goblin druids when? We already got priests and shamans.

[c0rzilla]

I'd take that over undead druids any day. ;p

[Dae]

Now lets go with the hypothetical Troll Paladin. Trolls are known to have gods, that is no doubt, so to have one troll warrior devoted to a god is not out of the boundary. The Troll Paladin is a servant of his/her choice of Loas and fights for their cause as a blessed warmongerer.

See, I humongously disagree that paladin can just be some OOC class than can be used to represent any "holy warrior" for their race's god(s). They're not. Paladins are defined by their dedication to the Light and their pursuit of justice and righting wrongs. They should not be watered down to just being... "holy warriors". Trolls are savage brutal barbarian warriors, they please their gods by cutting the hell out of people, not throwing hammers of Loa-juice around. Sunwalker clause be -damned-.

Troll pallies would be a great thing!
...With a few tweaks.

Keep in mind, our Darkspear trolls have taken a new path as of late, they've done away with their gender bs, they've engaged in a new era of good shamanism, and most importantly, they've abolished the darker side of trolling traditions. The spirits of nature themselves have looked upon these trolls and found them fit to dream in the Emerald Dream. These aren't the savages of old.
With the Darkspear having reignited their relationship with Bwonsamedi, the Loa of the troll dead, they have earned his greater patronage, which among other things, is the power to smite undead. They also have an only very briefly mentioned Loa of "light" whom heals with positive energy and emotion, who also coincidentally does not have the power to banish the undead.

If I were to lead a guild destined to become troll paladins, I would first introduce them as Troll devotees to Bwonsamedi. Then I would bust out the custom lore explaining how Lukou is a "lost" Loa, with some connection to Bwonsamedi, (sister/wife/parallel female aspect) that they are tasked to rescue/redeem. She would be a being of order and kindness and would have been banished/forgotten/etc. Precisely because she was so against the typical troll voodoo. The troll rescuers would gain her favor, wielding both her healing/light like power as well as Bwonsamedi's smiting power.

These characters would have a strong tie to classic troll culture in their worship of the Loa of the dead, but would become paragons of this New Horde sense of honor, Cenarion/Earthen Ring sense of balance, etc. Basically, think all the stuff that drew the Horde pandaren to the Horde, but with a more trollish presentation. They wouldn't be warriors of Justice, but of Honor and the inherent positivity within the troll spirits of Life and Death.

Does that provide a troll paladin with enough virtue, goodness and drive to do the Paladin class... Justice? (Ba dum tish)

Also, I'm having serious issues with auto correct if you can't tell...

[cartoonkarl]

In Cataclysm there is a questline about a Night Elf paladin and a Dwarf paladin in WPL and EPL. (I believe), and while this is cool that there is actually a Night Elf using the Light as a Paladin this is the only evidence of it actually happening. Most Night Elves do not worship the Light, rather Elune.

While I would totally advocate paladins on worgen I understand why they do not have it, at least what we have accepted. I would prefer if more class/race combinations were created that we still use the same logic that Blizzard has mainly used with character class combinations.

Paladins as Forsaken would be almost completely impossible, I only know of one Undead Paladin and he is a boss in Naxxramas controlled by Kel'thuzad (Sir Zeliek). He was so faithful to the Light that even in death he could use its powers.

Humans probably can't be shamans as they don't really have a shamanistic background but could be minor druids (I.E. Gilneans pre-Worgen curse but still far from Night Elf or other Worgen when it comes to power.)

Gnomes could use more classes, I could go on.

BUT MOSTLY: Everyone has every class they really should need in Lore.

[Mathias]

It was a blood elf, Karl.

[Beargrin]

Honestly: The entire concept of most classes is pretty damn silly... Not many people are defined by the fact of "Oh, he's a warrior..." That doesn't tell you anything. "He's a shaman!" That doesn't tell you anything. "That person's a druid..." That doesn't tell you anything. Not really. Especially seeing how most NPC's use spells that they shouldn't be using.

That said...

Paladins - Really, any race that's able to be a priest should be able to be a Paladin, with the explanation being this: They're more comfortable in plate armor rather than cloth. - Seriously, that's pretty much all a paladin is. A priest that can swing a hammer.


Shaman - There's at least one human shaman in lore. At least. Shaman isn't really a class that should be that restricted if the person can learn to commune with the elements properly. Or just control them. Twilight's Hammer proved that much.

Rogue - This... yeah, pretty much every race should have rogues like they should have warriors. "But, tauren have hooves! So do draenei!" Rogue is a massively broad term. Assassins, thugs, pickpockets... And honestly, are you saying that it's completely possible for someone to vanish completely from sight, but impossible for someone else to hide the sound of hooves?

Druid - I unno. It'd be neat to see orcs become druids, but I can't think of too many reasons for orc druids. Unless the tauren set to teaching them.