Grakor Grumbles: Race/Class Expansions

[Dae]

One thing I feel I need to make clear, especially for the sake of the Worgen paladin argument: Worgen were never immune to undeath. Nor are paladins. They are, however, immune to disease, and the most common means of becoming a sentient undead individual? A super special plague. (hence Worgen DKs, too; they were raised through next romance proper.)

Worgen Druids are a pretty new thing, too, but between the harvest witches leading a cultural precedence and their owing their sentience to druid in practice, it's pretty darn important. A Worgen paladin would have to learn to paladin after being transdogified, but through RP, we could definitely see the formation of the Knights of the Silver Paw.

Undead, however...
Well, I love the Forsaken like all get out, but a part of being a true paladin is to host a burning Light within oneself. The same thing that keeps paladins from having died by the Curse of Undeath (and thus prevented a decent population size of undead paladins from existing in the first place) would be a constant fire burning away at an undead paladin's form.

As for Sir plothole Zeliek, he was a Horseman. A violated undead entity whose existence is being actively and maliciously puppet by necromantic forces. Presumably, the same immense amounts of Shadow being used to manipulate him would be used to sate the Shadow-smiting inner Light. (Poor dude) And we've seen this same idea before many times in the Legion and the Scourge, in which something that isn't entirely practical is used for the sake of psychological warfare. I mean, what was the point of shoving orcish necromancer souls into humans with previous-generation DKs except for the fear factor?

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't really use Zeliek as an example because he was raised in a different manner, raised for a very specific reason (to fulfill a very specific visual motif), isn't even using the Light in a voluntary manner, with all this being done by powerful entities that are known for over elaborate spectacles of fear.

Other than the fact that it proves undead individuals can burn with Divine Light, Zeliek, case doesn't at all address whether it would be possible for a Forsaken to possess paladin powers without just auto-smiting themselves. Really, the fact that only/[I] Zeliek exists as a proper undead paladin, as well as the fact that Blizzards gave the second Horde paladin slot to the Turn kinda makes a point that Blizzards is trying to keep their distance from undead paladins.

Blizzard's intentions (rather, my interpretations of it) aside, I have tried to figure out what, exactly, a Forsaken Paladin would even offer from a role play standpoint that a devout, Light-worshipping character wouldn't offer already. Dorfs and humans are there for historic and social reasons, (you play them and get distinct interactions different even from priests) Draenei get vindicator status, Blood Elves get the Blood Knights and the social debate, and even Sunwalkers get to explore their new twist on existing spirituality through a caster/melee class combo which tbh does make more sense from the Horde's usual approach to things.

But what, really, would an Undead Paladin even be? Would being a paladin rather than a priest of a devout warrior really make a significant difference in how others treated them? How would this revelation of undead paladin hood come into being? I mean, if it were as simple as "yo, just learn how 2 paladin," wouldn't someone have figured it out after all this time? And, of course, how [I] would they not burn up from the constant Light? Wouldn't they be suffering from chronic severe pain at the very least?

As against the general notion of undead paladins as I am, custom lore could solve some of my issues with it. (Being purpose, likelihood and generation of different and quality RP)
1. They could go the Blood Knight route and get Light from elsewhere without directly channeling it. Any organization that were doing so, maliciously or otherwise, would at least have a cultural impact among the Forsaken, draw parallels with the Blood Knights, and further question the nature of the Light in a manner that would put classic Alliance paladin hood in a different Light.

2. They could somehow tamper with their souls. The Soul is presumably where the Light of a paladin exists, and has somehow been augmented with Shadow in Undeath.

Though this is one of many potential interpretations of this, I could see dedicated Forsaken characters taking the same magic and techniques behind Lichdom and use that to create some kind of phylactory that would allow them to channel the Light through it without spontaneous spiritual combustion.

...Actually, I kinda like this idea. These Forsaken could have figured out how to turn the Inner Light of a paladin into a slow burning flame. With some kind of isolated part of their soul (possibly in the form of a candle? Magic weapon/personal item?) They can wield the Light, knowingly burning through the very magic that allows them to exist. These characters wouldn't even know how long their (un) lives would exist in this condition, but they're so dedicated to serving the Light they don't even care.

This would be both very Paladin-ie and give proper recognition to their being Undead. Giving up undead "immortality" would separate them from undead priests as well as make them interesting to classic paladin characters.

[c0rzilla]

Worgen are immune to the lesser undeath that is Forsaken-hood. Otherwise, you'd see Vrykul raising worgen left and right, and you don't.

[CappnRob]

I think we should focus on what we can do with the classes and races we have rather than homeweave ridiculous tales of how X became Y. This runs risk of people getting caught up in their fan fiction fantasies and losing focus on what's already there to work with and explore. Cataclysm already opened up a LOT of doors, overwhelmingly so, and this is just going the flood the barrel over.

I want to have an impact on the world with custom lore, but these notions go too far. I don't want to -rewrite- the world, because then it ceases to be the world I am interested in RPing with. Why do you want to RP something that distracts from your character's heritage? Characters on CotH will generally always be exceptions to the norm, but a lot of what I'm seeing here is just full out special snowflake, and I don't like it.

[KomodoTheCashew]

Whelp, here goes me trying to actually debate lore and canon and all that stuff I've been really shaky on for the first time here. (Light help me) If I make some lore mistakes, feel free to (nicely) call me out on it, preferably on Skype. Best way to learn is being thrown into the crucible aye?

I'd say as long as it doesn't break lore, it should be fine. What do I mean by that? Well, here's just a couple of examples. (I'm not going to do every single race/class combo! What are you? crazy?)

One's I'd be okay with.

Draenai Warlock - The 2 main arguments I've heard against this are mainly that Warlocks are too corrupt and go against the Draenai's way of life and culture. Secondly, The Burning Legion hunted down the Draenai so why would they want to suddenly join what is killing their people.

Well, the Warlocks that players play fight the Burning Legion. Draenei Warlocks would also fight The Burning Legion as most Draenei already do. I also don't understand then why Draenei would be allied with the Alliance which has its fair share of Warlocks but they can't say "I bet by studying The Burning Legion's ways, we can better understand them and beat them!" If that makes sense. It just seems like a little nit picky thing that's holding them back from what I understand.

Gnome Paladin - They can already be Warriors. They can already be Priests of the Light. This one I don't see any opposition for really.

Gnome Hunter - This one isn't too hard either. Most arguments I've heard against this are along the lines of "Well, a wolf would eat a Gnome" or something like that. Gnomes can definitely come up with some way to capture and tame an animal without having to face it head on. Gadgets and such. On a side note, Gnomes don't ride actual animals, they ride machines. I guess I'm proposing a Techno-Hunter type class with robotic animal companions instead of actual animals.

One's I'm on the fence about.

Night Elf Paladin - I wouldn't argue this if there wasn't Tauren Paladins/Priests because I honestly thought that only Light users could be Paladins. Why can't the Night Elves have a couple of Priests/Priestess of Elune who are ready to fight toe to toe with the enemy? Now, here's where I kind of get a little sketchy with my own logic. Tyrande was a pretty good combatant as well as being a Priestess so why can't there be more characters like this just with plate armor and melee weapons. However, She is also a very major powerhouse and lore figure, we tend to avoid characters like that here. My only issue with this is the "OP-ness" and closeness to major lore characters a Night Elf Paladin would be.

Troll Paladin - Maybe some Trolls worship a wise, powerful, merciful Loa that's all about Justice? I don't know, I feel like most classes that can be a priest should be able to be a Paladin in some form.

Draenai and Tauren Rogues - I know that in-game Rogues are the sneaky assassination types but that's also just one skill tree. The other 2 trees are more in combat based and seem to be more about gaining the upper hand in a battle using low ball tactics and a bit of evasiveness. I can see these 2 races being in an intense fight and rely on a swift groin kick or some sand in the eyes to gain an advantage. On the other hand, you could also just roll a warrior and have them fight dirty (See: Tykeral Kerickson) or just being a bit more dodgy than most warriors.

The ones that I absolutely oppose.

Worgen Paladins - As much as I like Paladins and as much as I like Worgen, Paladin are immune to curses like Worgenism. (if that's even a word) If you're a fan of the Worgen's lore and want to play a Paladin, I've been told that Gilnean Paladins are fine.

Undead Paladin - The argument of "The Undead Priests can use the Light so why can't they be Paladins?" doesn't really work. After a quick google search I brought up a quick Q/A one of the lore writers had regarding this. Basically, he said that where as Undead Priests are able to use the Light, it causes an intense amount of pain. From what I understand, Priests harness the light when they want but Paladins are constantly channeling the light. An Undead Paladin would be in intense pain and most likely, dead.... like permanently this time.

Tauren Mage/Warlocks - In accordance with the Tauren's Four Laws belief system, they do not deal with Arcane or Dark "magic" of any kind. (Technically, they should not be able to be Shadow Priests either but I don't think we have any Tauren Shadow Priests.)

Notice that I did not talk at all about Druid or Shaman, I am still a bit confused on how they work so I didn't want to try to start a straw man argument regarding them.

That's pretty much my list. Anything I left off, I just don't have enough lore knowledge to debate for or against.

[cartoonkarl]

Oh em gee kazsuw, gib me wergen paldins gawsh

[Dae]

I think we should focus on what we can do with the classes and races we have rather than homeweave ridiculous tales of how X became Y. This runs risk of people getting caught up in their fan fiction fantasies and losing focus on what's already there to work with and explore. Cataclysm already opened up a LOT of doors, overwhelmingly so, and this is just going the flood the barrel over.

I want to have an impact on the world with custom lore, but these notions go too far. I don't want to -rewrite- the world, because then it ceases to be the world I am interested in RPing with. Why do you want to RP something that distracts from your character's heritage? Characters on CotH will generally always be exceptions to the norm, but a lot of what I'm seeing here is just full out special snowflake, and I don't like it.

And this is why I feel that custom lore is crucial to most new race/class combos. If a new combination is used just for the sake of being effectively what another race already does, I feel that it isn't particularly worth being. (Presumably through custom lore) a new class/race combination should bring something both new to the race in question as well as role play opportunities unique from any existing race/class combinations.

Sorry, Rob, but I feel a greater imperative to generate new and engaging RD opportunities. More importantly, snowflake characters who abuse this system for the sake of being different could be dealt with through a server reset that undid the custom lore,being sorted into the race/class they should properly be in. Cote has survived server resets and major canon changes regarding the RPG and prestige classes with little issue. I honestly feel like we don't have that much to lose in regards to giving new combos a go.

Worgen are immune to the lesser undeath that is Forsaken-hood. Otherwise, you'd see Vrykul raising worgen left and right, and you don't.

The Val'Kyr's magic is limited just to raising humans into under the because reasons. It's just as likely that their magic is limited due to the same "reasons;" Blizz would have to deal with undead worsen en masse and we all know how Blizzards feels about playable non-human Forsaken. (Srsly, where's ma deader elfs? QQ)

But that's a different argument. Let's go back to the "worgen can't be paladins because curse" thing. We have a legitimate reason for them to not already existing, as well as a strong cultural foundation for their being a thing. Of all Race/Class combinations to take the Custom Lore stick to, isn't this it? "The Worgen curse is different." Or, "Arugal's magic was removed by the magic leefs that allow Worgen to shift and be sentient. It's a part of the Gilnean Worgen now." Anything like that. It wouldn't be any more a lore faff than the whole Worgen retcon itself did in regards to consistency in magic logic.

[CappnRob]

Addendum: I'm gonna buck and elaborate on my yes/no for every possible race/class combination.

ALLIANCE

Humans
Shaman: NO. There's absolutely no precedent for shamanism in modern human culture. Shamanism is practiced by orcs which they hate, and Draenei which are weird alien squidfaces. EXCEPTION: Dark shaman in the Twilight's Hammer guild ONLY.

Druid: MAYBE. Gilnean non-Worgen Harvest Witch only. Shouldn't shapeshift. Only because we let people RP worgen in human form as druids to RP non-druid Harvest Witches.

Dwarfs
Druid: PROBABLY NOT. Wildhammers supposedly have druids according to the D20, but we see nothing of that in game. Wildhammers do love nature, but they're more in line with elementalism than Druidism. If allowed, no shapeshifting; nature magic only. But seriously, dwarfs have access to every other class in the game, do you really need one more?

Night Elves
Paladin: NO. Night elves have a lot of special, unique-onto-themselves-already classes. Priestess of the Moon, Warden, etc. They don't need paladins. They don't harness Elune's magic like a paladin harnesses the Light. NE paladins just distract from the already strange and diverse night elf classes which are unique to themselves.

Shaman: EH. Shamanism is a tad iffy, because typically Night Elves focus on nature and wildlife, not the elements that compose of nature. They have some affinity for Wind and Water, but none for Earth (aside from plantlife) and certainly not fire. I could see this being viable with a-really- good justification, but would ultimately just rather you play a druid. That's why NEs have druids.

Warlock: NO. Get out of here, Satyr scum. Seriously, NEs loathe and hate Fel, Fel corrupts and kills all life, which they are sworn to protect. EXCEPTION: A customized and tinkered to all hell Warlock to better represent the DEMON HUNTER, given DHers are essentially light armor wearing warlocks with agility based sword fighting.

Gnomes
Hunter: YES. Gnomes have always used guns, why can't they use the gun-favoring class? Their affinity for the rudimentary nature spells is no more awkward than a human's or a forsaken's and can be ignored. Seriously, why hasn't blizzard given the Engineering race the class that makes the most use of Engineering weapons?

Paladin: NOT REALLY. Gnomes have exposure to Dwarfs and the Light and have started to form their own priesthood, but that's a far cry from being able to train their own holy warriors. Maybe if they lived in Ironforge their own life as opposed to Gnomeregan... but then why not just roll a Dwarf paladin?

Shaman: NO. Gnomes are almost as bad as goblins when it comes to wrecking the planet, and they lack the business edge of goblins or lack of ethics to participate in Dark shamanism.

Druid: NO. The only gnomes that should be transforming into bears should be gnomes wearing mechanized battle armors that transform into steampunk robot bears. But seriously, again, not really attune with nature or anything, nor do they care.

Draenei
Rogue: PROBABLY NOT. Draenei do not deceive. Draenei do not cheat. Draenei do not backstab. Draenei do not use underhanded or wicked methods to kill. If they want you dead, they're going to be afront and in your face about it. Light armor wearing skirmisher is a maybe, but you can just as easily RP that using Warrior and wearing lighter armors than plate.

Warlock: GET OUT. The only race that could hate Fel and what it does MORE than Night Elves are these guys right here. No way, no chance, no how, hit the road jack, and don't you come back no more no more no more no more. EXCEPTION: You're RPing a Man'ari Eredar for villainy... in which case you'd be a CMC anyway and lemme just say good luck with that.

Druid: NO. Draenei shamans are shoe-horned enough, Druids would be worse. Draenei have some affinity with nature through their hunters, and sure Draenor born Draenei would be much more connected with the world than their Genedar or Argus born brethren, but is the elder Draenei who are accustomed to living in magically empowered artificial cities and what have you who sculpted their culture. Draenei might hold sympathy and regard for a hurting world but that doesn't mean they're gonna go druid.

Worgen
Paladin: MAYBE? I'm conflicted on this one. On the one hand, I was rather tiffed when I learned Worgen can not be paladins despite coming from a human culture that reveres paladins. However I've heard a lot of convincing (albeit fanon) arguments that state the Worgen curse does not permit you to use the Light like a paladin does or some such, and I can buy that. On the same hand, though, that is just fanon (though quite sensible fanon), so I dunno. I wouldn't think any native-born Gilneans would've been paladins though, because why would they stay behind the damn wall instead of going out into the world to help people?

Shaman: NO. No precedent for it, just like humans.


HORDE

Orcs
Paladin: NO. Orcs already have their spiritually guides melee fighters: Spirit Champions and Blademasters. There's no precedent for them to become heavily armored holy warriors, even for the Ancestors. And why exactly is channeling the Ancestors allow them to use holy magic anyway? Actually, orcs have a third spiritually guided fighter: ENHANCEMENT SHAMANS. You even get the shield! Orcs have enough already.

Priest: MAYBE. Priests are more nebulously defined than paladins, so I'm more lenient here. Also, the whole shebang of being a Shadow Priest as well. Weren't First War necrolytes made from priests? I dunno. Main kicker here is the role of spiritual leader is again, filled in by Shaman. The in game Shaman class is SO many variant classes condensed into one. Less stupid than orc mages though, at least.

Druid: NO. Orcs are bro with Tauren and all, but they kind of killed Cenarius. Sure, he forgave them, but they still did it. Plus, orc culture doesn't really jive well with the nature hippiness of druidism: Orcs like to cut down trees and what have you. They respect nature, but they ultimately believe in using it, if symbiotically.

Forsaken
Paladin: NO. Ok, this one is a tad of a toughie to decide. Yes, there are a few undead paladins in lore. However, one was so righteous he could still call the Light as a DK, and the other was an insane Scarlet who thought Undeath was a setback. I can get behind the idea that maybe, somewhere, somehow, yes, a Forsaken paladin retained his powers even in Undeath, despite the constant, endless, crippling agony he would feel from it. However, such a character would have to be a rarity. A one of a kind thing, something you'd never see replicated. It's an excellent source of drama and tragedy, but ultimately one I do not believe should be freely available. EXCEPTION: @"Sol" plays it.

Shaman: NO. Have you -seen- how much regard Forsaken give to nature? Not much! They plagued the hell out of Hillsbrad just to destroy the Alliance there, and are generally content with living in a blighted hellhole that is Tirisfal. No elemental spirit in their right mind would answer a call by a walking corpse with a bad attitude.

Druid: NO. It's like shaman but worse! Nature magic can't even be channeled by an Undead.

Tauren
Rogue: PROBABLY NOT. See comments on Draenei. Pretty much exactly applies here, with exception of the Grimtotem tribe. Tauren are the biggest race in WoW, you can not sneak like that. Want a lightly armed skirmisher, then roll a warrior.

Mage: NO. Arcane makes them sick. Sure, you can write it off as being an inscriber, but why would a tauren want to even care about that? Their whole culture is based on living outside, with and around nature. They don't care about probing the mysteries of the infinite, they have all they need in the rolling hills and blue skies.

Warlock: NO. Are you serious? See Night Elves and Draenei.

Trolls
Paladin: NO. The spiritual warrior class for trolls are Shadow Hunters. They commune with Loa and spirits and do all sorts of tricksy voodoo goodness with it. Trolls generally are never heavy armor wearers, and the Loa's magic often manifests as totems, wards, hexes, curses, and other such black arts. It just does not synergize well with how paladins are set up, even if it isn't a TRUE paladin. And like dwarfs, they have access to EVERY OTHER CLASS already.

Blood Elves
Shaman: NO. Blood elves care absolutely nothing for the elemental spirits. They respect nature and the forest, yes, but I don't see them regarding wind, earth, water and fire as anything more than just that. If a BE wants to sling a fireball, he has arcane magic for that.

Druid: MAYBE. Like human druids, Blood Elf druids would have to be -heavily- regulated and restricted as to what they do. Blood Elven druids are effectively nature wizards, using arcane magic to stimulate plant growth and the like to tend to the forests. Elves -love- and respect their forest, but they aren't going to be Emerald dream converts any time soon. No shapeshifting.

Goblins
Paladin: NO. Goblins do not have the culture, mindset, or heritage to even try to imitate paladins. Most goblins you see wearing heavy armor are likely Steamwarriors; Goblins in general rely on mecha suits and dirty tactics to get their jobs done. Nothing is present for goblins to even imitate or knock off a paladin's abilities; sure they have priests, but I doubt their dedication to ANY deity is far from strong.

Druid: NO. Goblins -trash- the world badly. Shamanism gets a derpy free pass by mention of "bartering skills" and the more likely dark shamanism to manipulate the earth to get to its riches, but Druidism doesn't care for either of those things.

[Jonoth]

Just a quick note, despite that fact that I'm against these added classes. Human shaman have precedence, in the Human witch doctors, headshrinkers, and shadow hunters that live in Stranglethorn Vale formerly under Colonel Kurzen. Mind you, there is always priest as a class for the witch doctors, but shaman would technically be an alternative if we want to slide the slippery slope of opening classes.

[Ural]

I think it would be doing the custom lore a disservice if all we did was open up different race/classes simply based on existing race/class teaches to another race/class. Rather, it would be more interesting to see custom lore make a valid reason for the new combination. For example, Night Elf Warlocks. What were the Highborne doing during their exile? Maybe exploring demonology? To what extent? How did this group operate? How did they transition into Kaldorei society, if at all?

It would be more apt to say Worgen Paladins don't exist because Human Paladins didn't come around until after the First War. And by then the wall was all locked up. As for the curse itself, there's already some tweaking going on with it. So why couldn't the magical-blood-curse-idkanymore bypass whatever protection their faith guards against? What about a non-Gilnean human just trying to help out Darkshire? What if these/any/all Cursed Paladins rallied together and tried to make the best out of their situation?

[Scout]

My two cents:

I think that every single class should be open to every single race, regardless of what conventional lore and thinking might seem to dictate. The one caveat to this: using a class not provided ingame should be a special profile.

To say that one cannot be anything, I feel, shoehorns people into following a specific range of archetypes. Cultural influences have a lot to do with what someone might do in the first place sometimes, but they do not have absolute say over what someone might do. When custom lore wasn't on the table, I had no problem with people not following certain classes. Now that it is, I think that saying people can't pursue certain classes, so long as it's sufficiently justified in backstory or roleplay, is very unrealistic. Personally, I'm a fan of the idea that some of these classes might not be achievable from character creation, and that you might have to roleplay ingame or on the forums to get them, but the special profile system may be enough as it is to limit problems.

Before anyone says "but this is a fantasy game, so realism has nothing to do with this!" I'm just going to say that the realism that I mean here is the realism that characters have individual motivations and freedoms that allow them to pursue different ideas. In real life, people break from cultural ideals all the time, and to not allow that would put a lot of strain on my suspension of disbelief. Does this mean that it'll be easy? No, not necessarily. Some classes require a bit more deviation for certain races than others, and that's fine.

For some of the problem classes (AKA, ones that tend to only have certain races involved for lore reasons), I'm going to give a little bit more attention, in alphabetical order.

Druids!

I think that anyone that pledges to the Ancients or Ysera has a chance to become a druid. Joining the Cenarion Circle is a must, and it would always be fun for someone to try to roleplay from the ground up gaining acceptance in the druidic community. As long as someone is willing to devote their life to the balance of nature...why not let them become a druid? Maybe fewer undead would have desire to do so, but on the off chance that one did, it would be interesting to see them able to pursue that path and try to gain acceptance. Maybe most blood elves don't care much for the balance of nature, but I don't think it's beyond belief that one might have a change of heart, or never truly accepted fel in the first place.

Paladins!

I'll admittedly say that this is one of the classes that is a bit more exclusive, but I don't think it's impossible to say that the Light's prevalence may have spread, and some people may have seen the work of, say, the Argent Crusade, and felt a desire to convert to belief in the Light, seeing the good that it did in the world. The archetypes open to this are fewer than may be possible for other classes, but anyone can convert to a religion, and even find acceptance within that community, with time. Why not allow them to use that religion's powers as well?

Shaman!

I'd almost like to say all bets are off with shaman, as we have goblin shaman in lore who quite literally bribe the elements into serving them. If that's a possibility, then almost anything is possible with shaman, I think. As stated above with paladins, while it may be strange for some people, anyone can convert to a religion. I don't think the spirits are so picky as to discriminate, especially given the demon blood in the orcs' recent past, and the fact that orcs very nearly forgot shamanism.

There are always exceptions to racial archetypes, so I think that it would be good to allow strange race and class combinations, so long as they're played well.

[Xigo]

Here's my proposition.

Instead of going 'this doesn't make sense culturally for X race because Y', let's worry about 'is it actually impossible for a member of this race to do this'.

Over my years of GMing on CotH... I've noticed that players tend to play characters that reject their race's culture. While highly unlikely, and highly unusual, I suppose there isn't anything stopping a normal human or a gnome or an orc or whatever from being trained by a druid. And there's nothing stopping a draenei from going down the dark path of becoming a warlock, alongside night elves.

What is important, is properly roleplaying how everything else should react to seeing one of these things.
Gnome Paladin? Well that's unusual, but admirable!
Undead Paladin? Maybe some sort of admiration for sticking to eternal torment by the Forsaken who still praise the Light, but being outcast by the majority.
Orc Paladin? ... What? You mean you worship the human's and elf's life? HEY EVERYONE! THIS GUY WORSHIPS THE LIGHT! *Orgrimmar laughs as a whole, Garrosh comes out to give you a nuggie, nerd*
Tauren Mage? WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOU'RE DESTROYING THE LAND! YOU ARE NO TAUREN, YOU ARE FILTH. BE GONE FROM THIS LAND AND NEVER COME BACK.
Anything other than Pandaren Monk? Filthy gaijin, you know nothing of the art of the punch and kick.
Draenei Warlock? ... Brother/Sister, I really think you need to sit down and chat with Velen. Immediately.

So on, so forth.

You might not like a certain race/class combo. So... just have your characters not like the race/class combo. There's nothing stopping you from treating that Tauren Warlock like he's a sack of shight. Some characters are going to care about these unusual things. Some aren't.

In any case, so long as these things are treated properly, it's not that big of a problem. I think the fear most players have about this sort of thing is Undead Druids suddenly becoming a huge thing. So please, allow me to speak with some more experience as a staff member.

All things we release/change, become fads. Sure, for like the two weeks after this change is made, there will be a bunch of unusual characters rolled (I know I would make a Gnome Paladin, for example). But after that... the characters people are actually interested in will stay. And the ones who are just 'lol undead druid' will poof.

The only thing we should be discussing [imo] is whether or not it's possible for a race to be a certain class. We should talk about things like Worgen Paladins and Draenei Warlocks. Are those even possible?

[Xanvol]

Troll paladins (freethinkers/heretics/prelates) are already in the lore, along with those probably paladin NElves in WoE

So I'm all for everything. But I'm gonna roll a gnomish hunter because I am predictable

[CappnRob]

I think another thing to consider is when and HOW the hell someone is going to learn a class's skills outside their normal boundaries. Like, ok. You want a Forsaken Druid (to give an extreme example). How long has he been practicing this? Most races haven't even had exposure to each other's cultures for more than 5 years, tops. Sure there's oddities in lore already like Sunwalkers (supposedly been in training since WotLK and finally made available in Cata, so 3 years) or Worgen Druids (not even a year), but again, they have justification that works; Sunwalkers being a branch off of druidism that doesn't compete with other archetypes in Tauren culture and Worgen being unfortunate enough to be stuck with a druidic curse to begin with. How does a Forsaken (or anyone else for that matter) pick up druidism? How does anyone learn this immensely powerful, ancient, and ultimately ALIEN art in such a short time? Again, there are already notable exceptions in lore... but they're all the exceptions that can be explained, imo. Tauren are semi-recent, but they've always had the Earthmother thing going on. Worgen have a druidic curse (and you'll see most RPers who play Worgen druids play them as learners who can't control their inner animalism). Trolls are just channelling animal Loa like the Zul'aman bosses. No one else has precedent. No one else has the significant exposure or training or cultural knack for it.

There are a few exceptions to this; as I said before Gnomes have had a lot of exposure to Dwarfs and therefore could've perhaps wanted to be a paladin... but by and large most races have no precedent to justify HOW they would be an unusual class to begin with.

[Scout]

Any justifications for this are going to be on an exceptional, circumstance-by-circumstance basis. I don't see how any of these arts are so alien that one couldn't learn them, period. Becoming druids must have been alien for the worgen that learned how, but they still learned. Becoming shaman must have been alien for the goblins, but they still learned. Every character is going to become a class like this in their own context...and since we're opening the floodgates on custom lore, who knows what might be possible now?

[Grakor456]

but by and large most races have no precedent to justify HOW they would be an unusual class to begin with.

Just as there was no precedent for Sunwalkers and Harvest Witches until Blizzard added them in Cataclysm. The "how?" is a question that will be answered. It's not like we'd be adding these combinations just suddenly. There will be storylines, told through events and forum posts, that will slowly lead to these results. It won't be instantaneous.

For that matter, let's try to be calm and respectful here. You don't know how "ridiculous" these tales are until you've seen them.

That said, I might as well undergo my own exercise here. The following are just MY OPINIONS so don't take them as definite directions of what we will or will not be "unlocking".

What I want to see:

Draenei Warlock - I know a lot of people have been using this as an example of a "bad" combination...but honestly, I actually think this is the combination that makes the most sense. With the whole business with the flight from Argus (and the future stuff with the Sargerei), we know that the draenei are not ignorant to the power of fel and it's not -impossible- for them to undergo this path. We also know that warlocks are not always evil, that many become warlocks with good intentions in their hearts. So, what is to say that some draenei don't want to fight fire with fire? What is to say that, after thousands of years of running, some might not be tempted by a path that seems...seductively easier? Sure, they'd be reviled by the rest of their people, but the path of the warlock has never been easy. People have this romanticized view of draenei that has them being the paragon of all that is good, and it'd be neat to be able to play with that a bit, because that's not what the race really is.

Night Elf Paladin - "Elune is a windchime" joke goes here. But in seriousness, I think this would raise some more interesting questions and RP about the nature of Elune. Especially if Nelf paladins had some differences from other paladins, like a focus on moonlight and such.

Blood Elf Druid - I've said earlier that I thought it was silly that druid was so tightly held by a small minority of races. It also does lead to some wonky lore issues, such as the druidic races being preachy to other races about respect of nature, but not willing to teach these other races how to live in harmony with it (why don't Nelves share wisps with orcs argument goes here.) So, I'm all for spreading this particular class out to some more races. High Elves had some closeness to nature, and Blood Elves could regain some of this...though, perhaps a bit forcefully and with arcane assistance. We do see a blood elf druid boss in BC, after all.

Orc Druid - You had to know that at least one orc combo had to go here. Though the joke started with orc paladin, if I'm being entirely honest, druid fits the race best over paladin and priest. Orcs are one of the "closer to nature" races thanks to their more shamanistic focus, and I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that could expand to something more. Plus, this could create further focus on what the orc story really is: that conflict between the growing militant, mechanical followers of Garrosh and the more "natural", cautious followers of Thrall.

What I don't want to see:

Undead Druid/Shaman - "Undead Druid" is something of a boogeyman, something created as a punchline for "what is the worst combination we can think of?" While I'm sure someone could theoretically make it "work" with forcing nature through arcane, so on so forth, I think I'd just rather not see undead do anything with the nature classes.

Gnome Druid/Shaman - Gnomes are techies. I'm good with them remaining distant from nature as the undead are, though for different reasons.

Goblin Druid - Similar reasons as gnome.

Tauren Warlock - Yeah, I'd rather see draenei warlock than tauren warlock. Unlike draenei, tauren are even more put off by fel. I want to say they're actually sickened by it, but I can't recall if that was canon or just in the d20.

Most everything else I'm more or less neutral to.