Grakor Grumbles: Race/Class Expansions

[Dizzyeye]

I personally feel that all class/combination should be unlocked -but- those that are exceptional cases like Draenei Warlocks etc are checked over by the staff to see if the story makes sense. Of course it would be hard to get one through etc. Basically you'd have had to put a lot of thought into the concept to make it likely to happen. Hell things could even happen in game that affect a races standings if I read the thread correctly with the trolls losing their gender roles thing.

[Psychyn]

Mmm...
I like everything about this except the "unlocking for the whole race" thing.

Just noting, this is for fairness. It'd be a bit harsh to say "X can be a Y/Z, but you can't because X isn't sharing." So, often the first person will also be founding the organization/group that pioneers this unusual combination.

This would, of course, open up more guild ideas and PCs having some legit power, since they'll be leading these groups.

Thanks for the opinions so far, folks.

Not sure if I'm up for this idea just yet; Suppose a PC leads the bandwagon with an unique class/race combination -- You like the combination, you dislike the PC that leads it. What then? Are you forced to seek this individual out, whom you don't get along with, to still figure something out?

I'd say GM-lead only to avoid this, till at least 3-4 people have the race/class combination so people have more of a choice on who they seek out. It might be slower at the start but nyeah. Not fully happy with the idea of a single PC individual starting this up.

As for the combinations.. it strongly depends. I am more then happy to stick with the current race/class options, it might be nice, but I don't feel like it is a must have.

Night Elf Paladin - "Elune is a windchime" joke goes here. But in seriousness, I think this would raise some more interesting questions and RP about the nature of Elune. Especially if Nelf paladins had some differences from other paladins, like a focus on moonlight and such.

This, I have to admit; I find interesting, and mused this over long ago.

[Grakor456]

Not sure if I'm up for this idea just yet; Suppose a PC leads the bandwagon with an unique class/race combination -- You like the combination, you dislike the PC that leads it. What then? Are you forced to seek this individual out, whom you don't get along with, to still figure something out?

I'd say GM-lead only to avoid this, till at least 3-4 people have the race/class combination so people have more of a choice on who they seek out. It might be slower at the start but nyeah. Not fully happy with the idea of a single PC individual starting this up.

If a group of PCs express interest in a combination at the same time, there may be joint leadership.

That said, I kind of want to avoid situations where GMs are leading all of the groups. That would defeat part of the purpose, here. If there is a situation where you might want to be a Y/Z, but you don't like guild leader X, then I think the best way to go about this would be to start a private discussion thread on it and perhaps something can be worked out to make this work regardless.

[Psychyn]

I was personally thinking a GM could start the group; Then pass on leadership as people gain interest and are 'fully' trained or on the right path. Take on more of an advisory role IC/OOC -- Though I fully understand people may not feel in control / powerless then.

I suppose a discussion may as work just as well, I couldn't help but ask on the "What if you dislike the person that starts running it" thought. Carry on I suppose~ ^^

[Scout]

On the topic of players "leading" certain race/class combos, will there be options for people to have concepts that are separate from those groups?

[Grakor456]

On the topic of players "leading" certain race/class combos, will there be options for people to have concepts that are separate from those groups?

Potentially, and may also require private discussion threads.

Though, I think it may be a good idea to give that some time and see how the base system works before trying to break/branch out of it too much. We still need to hammer out the nitty gritty details of how we'll be making this behind the scenes.

[Krilari]

I'm curious what everyone may think in terms of a system. We have some loose ideas surrounding posts on the forums like the old prestige system. That, and/or in-game events. What do you all think?

[Scout]

I think that the old prestige system is a fine base, but there must be means of doing it ingame as well, otherwise it will drive some people insane. I know my huge criticism with the system was that I personally have difficulty writing posts sometimes, and I really don't want RP to seem like a chore. Those who want to, of course, should feel free. Perhaps in lieu of prestige posts, if the GMs are too busy to run personalized events, the players in question could send RP logs to the GMs, recording them with Elephant or something.

Ingame events and prestige-style posts are both good ideas.

[Dae]

Perhaps an unprecedented class/race character should be initially profiled as a variant of an existing combo at first? They could be re rolled once they've achieved their new class ICly, but in the meantime, we technically don't have unusual and unproven combinations wandering around.

That being said, I've had an idea that could make feral undead druids potentially possible: Abominations.
We have a precedence for animal undead, as well as abominations with a sense of intelligence. What if a Forsaken were keen on exploring the nature of undeath (especially the idea of shared conciousnesses) by augmenting themselves by sharing their minds and souls with other undead entities? Presumably, they would stick to animals because they would be the primary "intelligence" of the pair.
That being said, they would have more options for animal forms, but would lack the magical boost of proper Ancient patronage. They would also likely have only one animal form.

[muhaha8]

I'd say that a combination of forum posts, announcements and in-game RP should be the right thing for this. Really, though, I think that the biggest thing in determining this all should be the in-game RP. Considering that this is all designed to affect the game world, I feel as though it should take place primarily in that world. Of course, any RP that happens should, ideally, be attended by a GM (if possible, one GM should be dedicated to seeing a specific storyline through to the end). If that's impossible, then logs should be sent to the staff.

As for what class combinations I feel we should allow...

Well, my vote was for all of them. However, as I explained in my last post, I feel we should allow all, with the stipulation of proper justification of any idea put forward. If any idea cannot be properly justified to the staff and have any and all possible questions answered reasonably, then it should not be allowed. That is not to say that someone else cannot come along and better justify the same choice.

I think there's only one combination that I would have trouble justifying, or agreeing with any justification put forward: Draenei Warlocks. I see tons of potential there, but I feel like it's a far stretch to justify it. I know I sure as hell couldn't do it. However, if someone can... Well, then I'd probably be right there with them making one.

[Kaghuros]

I agree with Scout. Being able to go about it organically through RP is an option that would make the process a lot easier. On that note, I also think we should use the kind of informal and formal systems we're already used to.

For example: discuss it in a Private Discussion post, once you get the go-ahead do the prelude RP on your character for however long it lasts and post/send logs about it, then re-submit your profile and guild/organization idea like a special profile to get put up somewhere on the wiki as canon (maybe in a wiki section for "group profiles" or something). That way we use the types of systems people already know, and the sets of rules that already more or less exist.

Edit: This is somewhat based on the idea that people are changing the classes of existing characters who already have a profile.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I think a good side-conversation to have here would be establishing boundaries on what makes someone a class and what doesn't. It also may be good to talk about when someone becomes a Satyr instead of a Night Elf, or an Man'ari Eredar instead of Draenei.

For example, I'm gonna hop back to Druids here because they're easily the class I'm most comfortable with. For me, a Druid is a Nature of Warrior who can shapeshift into what they protect, as well as heal and such. However, the suggestions I have seen for opening up Druidism have either ignored shapeshifting, or mentioned that it wouldn't be allowed. This brings me to my question of exactly what is a Druid, if not a Shapeshifter?

Now, some may say 'one who heals/fights for the land'. But I think that's much too broad. Fighting could be nearly anyone; my mind is personally drawn to Elven Rangers a la Farstriders, or Beastmasters, or Subversives. Yes, these are all RPG classes, but they're all reinforced by things in-game or not too far of a stretch. And also fairly important, none of them are Druids.

And what about those that heal the land? That's again a widely spread job description, but a good deal less popular than it's previous one. Really only Druids and Shamans can claim it, but that's really nothing all too exclusive.

The only thing that Druids really have that's unique for them is shapeshifting. IIRC, the Shaman's Spirit Wolf body just replaces the Shaman's body with that of a ghostly wolf, other than with the Druid's transformation from human to feline. And so, to me, that constitutes why Druids are Druids -- because they went out and gained the blessing of these primal nature spirits to fight in their name, and can turn into these animals.

In essence, I think that we should make some sort of wider opinion on 'what is a Druid', or 'what is a Paladin'. Once we establish these, we can compare them with races; look for similarities between Orcs and Paladins first, before using those similarities to create a proper new class. It may be a bit more timely, but I think it would be a more effective and well-rounded way of getting to our goals.

[Beltharean]

I haven't kept up with this conversation much since I posted, so this might be a bit random, but there are already Human Shaman in WoW. Any possible Arathorian shamanistic ancestry from the Vrykul aside, we have these guys:

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=942/kurzen-witch-doctor

But Belth, that's a very rare and particular example! Yes, you're right. That's what this whole system is about... It's not that every human being is going to jump on the bandwagon and become a shaman, it's just saying that it's possible to do it. From what I understand, this would be a rather strenuous process with in-character story lines, and private discussions, and approvals and checklists from the GMs all along the way. This isn't an open invitation to have 12 Night Elf Warlocks on the server at one time, it's an open invitation to try and explore new possibilities for RP.

[Psychyn]

We have some loose ideas surrounding posts on the forums like the old prestige system. That, and/or in-game events. What do you all think?

Please don't. I never got involved with the old prestiges because of that system; I'm all for a profile, all for writing a history, but I simply refuse to go through a grind of forum story posts to achieve something of a playable class/race.

I'm not a forum RPer (Or Skype before anyone hops on that bandwagon, all my actual RP is in-game with little snippets reaching the forums here and there. Singular posts about guilds, past events or such which take me forever to do), never will be and this just falls in my category of forum RP. I can't even keep a diary going, let alone a storyline like this.

[Reigen]

Just profiling as a new class defeats the purpose of getting them 'opened' so to say. The other option would be to work with GMs on the storyline that happens though RP. However, I would be strongly against just throwing up a profile for a new race/class combo.