Prestige Applications: OPEN

[Dragonbeard]

Templars are sword wielding, plate wearing, deeply faithful warriors. It just doesn't make sense for a Priest who does not have any experience in 2/3 of the main points to be able to become one of them.

Actually many Templars shed their plate armor and their weapons to train in other forms of combat. (They have no proficiency in any specific armor or weapon according to MM&M.)

I understand we're not using the d20's 100% because they aren't canon, however, it is stated in More Magic and Mayhem:

The majority of the Argent Dawn Templars are Paladins, although some Healers also take up the Templar's mantle.

That's the only reason I bring it up. It does not affect me one way or another.

[Kaghuros]

Well it's not an Argent Dawn Templar anymore, though. I think that's what they're trying to say. These classes aren't D20 classes, they're CotH classes, many of which were redesigned from the ground up and carry similar names because that describes them best.

[Xigo]

Out of curiosity as Kaz has the Myrmidon prestige...

Are their salaries supposed to be like that of say, Lesnar, Saint-pierre, Muhammad Ali in his day, and the like? They get tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars per fight and they simply use their fists instead of weapons the size of their bodies. Would someone with this prestige be comparable to that, or would they be more along the lines of Tom Lawlor who in his last fight got 16,000 with an 8,000 win bonus?

Simply curious, since I wasn't sure just how wealthy wealthy was with this system.

I'd compare it more to the latter. You get a substantial pay for fighting in an arena, your name is big, but it's not a super-star celebrity status like that.

Hawk knows more about the prestige he wrote, though. >.>

[Hawk]

Xigo is correct.

[Zarquon]

A plethora of issues with my other commitments and now this is making me extremely tempted. . .

*Lapses into deep contemplation*

[sunday12321]

And after the array of complaints, questions, and other biscuits:

I -love- this system. Difficult, demanding, -rewarding-.

May the force be strong with this one, and may it -not- fall like the last two systems!

[Spiralin]

I've a question about this:

The training must be posted in training threads that are easily accessible and read on the forum. The training may either be done exclusively on the forum or may be IC transcripts formatted to fit readability standards.

A player will be allowed to post a maximum of two posts per week.

Each post must be no less than 600 words. Allowances may be made on a case-by-case basis on extenuating circumstances.

A player's thread must have a minimum of 16 posts on it before it can be considered complete, as 16 is the base number of posts with two posts per week in a two month time frame. Players are, as always, encouraged to go above and beyond.

A person must submit to a GM a rough outline of what each post will contain and how it will be structured. The GM will read over this outline and give it an approve/deny mark if they have no questions.

If they are given approval they may write and put up the post. If they are denied they must take the criticism given and re-write the outline before submitting it again.

When they have written all posts and the above requirements are met, the GM team will review the thread. If a majority approves it then it will be deemed complete. If they deny it, they will force the person to make the necessary changes before re-evaluating it.

A GM holds the right to, at any time, pause a person during their prestige process if they feel that the thread, its content or the process itself has not met the prestige system's standards.

I highlighted the main point of this question.

Does this mean before -every- post a player makes, or just for the application?

[Rosencrat]

Edited the main thread to clarify the 'week period' that people may post in as well as discuss the GM approval process for prestige posts.

Also, to answer your above question, Spir, you only need to submit the overview for the application. I've edited it for clarity as well.

[Hexproof]

Out of curiosity, if an application is denied, is it allowed to be revised and resubmitted, or would that be allowed even before outright denial (if at all)?

What I mean is, is the submission of an application a "one chance, so don't mess it up" sort of deal, or is there some allowable margin for error in submitting an application that can be fixed before denial?

[Rosencrat]

We are currently discussing how the re-submission process will work, but I can tell you this: You will be allowed to resubmit profiles.

[Hexproof]

Awesome, thank you!

And a belated thanks to the entire GM/Admin team who worked on this, as well. It's a very nice system!

[Kaghuros]

Spiralin, I think that is the case. Last time prestige posts were allowed, each one required GM approval to be posted. With this system, you'll only need to have the general outline to be approved, rather than submitting the whole post for approval.

So, approve prestige -> Submit outline -> Make post

[Binkleheimer]

As a side note, there is the Spell Breaker prestige out there.
*hacking cough*
Just in case anyone's characters wanted that profession.
:3

[Aphetoros]

Hoping to be more constructive, I've looked through the prestiges thoroughly to point out what I believe should be changed or tweaked.

Spoiler:

Archmage

• The schools of warcraft were altered here, whether by intention or not I feel that they have been defined extremely well in the World of Warcraft. They are, according to Higher Learning: Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy (illegal for Archmagi, though!) and transmutation. Explanations can be found for what each of these can do here.
  
• I feel some of the spells given to each of the schools underneath 'Mastery of Schools' are misplaced, such as slow fall being under alteration, or polymorph being there as well.
  
• Again underneath Skills and Abilities it feels quite 'Elder Scrolls'-ish, if you know what I mean, when we already have the defined World of Warcraft schools.
  

Blademaster:

• Their abilities aren't necessarily elemental in nature. Their speed and skill is blessed by the spirits, and though one might consider their abilities elemental, they appear more magical in nature. Despite this, I'm almost certain it would be believed elemental or spiritual even if it is not. My argument against this mostly stems from fel orcs retaining the same abilities regardless of their spiritual or elemental favor.
  

Bone Crusher:

• It might be prudent to mention that once they start moving, it's almost impossible for them to stop. Possibly a weakness?
  
• While I agree their skin is tougher--since they magically gain skin equivalent to platemail, the word impervious might be a bit misleading. They also ignore the attacks not because of their toughened skin, but because of their pain threshold, which is very high. "A bone crusher is easily recognizable, even from afar. The bone crusher's body is littered with scars from battle, and he remembers receiving few, if any, of them. He forsakes armor, relying on his own personal strength and toughness to carry him through battle." They do get hurt, and cut, and stabbed. Often times it's their own rage for some, or their meditative trance while fighting for others.
  
• Theoretically, Humans, Draenei, and even gnomes could become a bone crusher if they so choose.
  
• If one looks in terms of balance, which I suspect was done, a runemaster bonecrusher is somewhat... 'broken'. I know it's possible, but it's going to suck for anyone that wants to go near them in combat. Runes + bone crusher strength = smash everything.
  
• Shield: A Bone Crusher withdraws into themselves, entering a state where they are unable to attack but where all physical damage is negated. A friend pointed this out and I was hoping 'all' didn't mean all! I think it should say "All physical damage within reason" because if I shoot him with a rocket or a crossbow point blank, not even the toughest hide can stand up to that. And still, it seems odd to say you can stab them and nothing will happen, since their skin is the equivalent of armor.
  

Burning Legionnaire:

• Overall it looks good, though I noted 'slow' on the weakness pertaining to no defensive roll bonus. It doesn't make sense considering their armor-like scales, gained from their Thick Hide ability. While you did say it gives increased health points, it seems simply odd that it doesn't help their defense, in fact it seemed slightly odd to mention much about roll combat at all!
  
• Shaman should be either Burning Legionnaire or Diabolist, depending on whether or not they were a (forgive me for using in-game specs) enhancement or elemental/resto shaman.
  
• It's worth mentioning that not all priests will be religiously hindered by their... fel-ification. Certain faiths flat out will not care.
  
• The undead cannot become fel-sworn, it's physically impossible.
  

Far Seer:

• Far seers aren't constantly succumbing to visions, while often it's fickle. It can be while they dream, usually, or completely random. Usually they will not be told something unless it is important.
  
• Far seers do not choose when they receive visions, while they can preform a ritual to induce one (i.e. sapta)
  
• Chain Lightning, Far Sight, and Spirit wolf are available to regular shaman. Unless the spirit wolves, however, are permanent, there is no difference.

High Divinist:

• I believe that this prestige is too geared for specific religions. Despite the fact that they gain Estoric Arts, which essentially would let one cast spells more according to their religion.
  
• I feel it's odd that they can cast resurrection without becoming fatigued. To me that means they can wave their hands and revive soldiers as they fall in the battlefield.

Ley Walker:

• I don't think it makes sense for Druids and Shaman to be able to become them-- while there is nothing stopping them it would be awkward since Ley-walkers seem to focus more on arcane magic.
  
• Since they use arcane (Ley Walkers can harness the raw arcane energies from the earth) Night elves would become Highborne if they were to do such.
  

Lightslayer:

• Secrecy weakness: While true, it would be hard to get the secrets, it is possible. Unless this meant willingly it's a bit restrictive.
  

Mountain Kings:

• A Mountain King can use ranged equipment if so desired, however they are no dead shot.
  

Myrmidon:

• Theoretically anyone can be a myrmidon! Battlemagi, paladins, battle-priests. Almost anyone who fights in an arena, while some would be less likely than others.
  
• A myrmidon shouldn't need to fight in the arena, in my opinion. Of course, it should definitely be a part of them, but it is possible for them to retire or do something else.
  

Potion Doc:

• Potion docs and Witch Doctors... aren't the same. They are essentially just extremely skillful alchemists.
  
• Trolls - particularly jungle trolls - are the most likely to become potion docs, as they have a strong witch doctor tradition. Forsaken apothecaries, with their interest in dark alchemy, and gnomes, with their scientific interests, and goblins, some of Azeroth's premier alchemists, are also likely candidates. Potion docs among other races are rare.
  
• I think the potion doc spoken of here is much too specified!

Primal:

• Hunters and rogues (while the latter less likely) are also prime candidates. It depends more on the person!
  
• Smart Choice sounds more like a strength than a skill or ability.
  

Shadow Ascendant:

• Dissipate is the same spell as Dispersion of the shadow priest, unless this was intended!
  

Shadow Hunter:

• I think the shadow hunter should have some way to craft their own spells-- the current spells are very similar to regular abilities every day classes get, though interesting. As we can see with with Vol'jin, he does much more than the abilities given (barring his lore characterness, we do see him do some interesting things like using a soul to contact Thrall from a different plane of existence, and calling a loa spirit to aid him in battle.
  

Spirit Champion:

• I will say it's odd that Draenei can become them-- it's never happened in lore and since they've only just discovered their shamanistic heritage it seems... off. Especially when you see that they've been using the elements, not spirits.
  
• If a warrior can become one, so can a hunter.
  

Spirit Walker:

• Again, Draenei don't make sense here at all. Draenei have not ever been known to have spirit walkers, and it wouldn't make sense as they focus on elemental shamanism in lieu of ancestor worship. Trolls are undocumented as well, and since a Spirit walker is chosen by the Spirits, I think it'd be a stretch to say either a Draenei or Troll player character could be the first.
  

Techno-mage:

• I'm still of the opinion that necromancers could be them.

Templar:

• Technically a priest could become one too!

Warden:

• Where did... blink go? D:
  

Whisper Blade:

• This one slightly annoys me. It's basically a renamed assassin, combining concepts from infiltrator and spymaster.
  
• I wouldn't say no one likes them. It depends not only on your personality, but also other factors. For example, I doubt Forsaken would care about the fact that "in the end, they're still murderers." Also, I'm sure many organizations like Ravenholt or Syndicate would admire and love the Whisper Blade.
  
• Conceal: So if I strip you naked and burn your clothes I wouldn't find it? That leaves only a few places left to check.
  
• I think I'd prefer the established assassin, spymaster, infiltrator or such as separate classes. IT was much more interesting to me personally.
  
  

If I offend in anyway please know it is unintended, and I'm hoping to be more constructive and point out the certain things I either didn't like or found odd.

My biggest overall thought however is the following: it's too cinder-block. It's concrete with little room for interpretation. I think I remember reading that they're only guidelines, for example something doesn't exactly have to follow the /roll or combative guidelines given, and if that's the case it's much better.

I also definitely feel that the requirements are far too restrictive. OOC class only determines so much--whereas a rogue can only become a whisper blade, suppose a warrior proves himself worthy of the knowledge. Or for example, a melee combative shaman would likely become a Legionnaire in lieu of a Diabolist. I'm not quite sure if the requirements are steel-set, but if they are I believe they should be given more leniency as long as something makes sense and can be backed up!

[Rigley]

Potion Doc:

Potion docs and Witch Doctors... aren't the same. They are essentially just extremely skillful alchemists.
Trolls - particularly jungle trolls - are the most likely to become potion docs, as they have a strong witch doctor tradition. Forsaken apothecaries, with their interest in dark alchemy, and gnomes, with their scientific interests, and goblins, some of Azeroth's premier alchemists, are also likely candidates. Potion docs among other races are rare.
I think the potion doc spoken of here is much too specified!

Noted. A mistake was made there with a last minute rename that ended up throwing the whole class off.

Blame me; I offered the rename on break, when I obviously wasn't thinking things through. In hindsight it's blatantly obvious why the article looks wrong.

Techno-mage:

I'm still of the opinion that necromancers could be them.

Necromancer wasn't a common class when I first drafted the article, and I was on break when it became normalized. Once more, my bad- I agree.