Prestige Applications: OPEN

[Kaghuros]

You know, High Divinists sorta can do that. Tyrande Whisperwind is High Priestess of Elune and that accumulated divine power lets her do crazy stuff. Miracles, really.

Definitely thought the Elder Scrolls magic was kinda funky when it's explained by a textbook in Dalaran. But admittedly it may not be on the right wiki pages to be easily read for whoever tried to find out magic stuff.

I feel that Spirit Champion and Spirit Walker should be restricted to only the races that practice ancestor-worship: Orcs and Tauren. It always seemed like their spirits stick around and give advice because they're venerated and remembered. That's why they can spirit-walk and speak to the Ancestors, they make damn well sure their spirits stick around because they believe that when they die they'll have a place at the hearth. And hey, their beliefs make them perfect candidates because they -try- to commune with their revered dead regularly through prayer or ritual. Draenei, being Light worshipers, don't care about their ancestors as much and let their spirits disappear to wherever Light worshipers go when they die.

Not sure how I feel about ley walkers. Priests could become them in the d20, but that also had a bizarre division of magic types (by role not by source of power) so I never felt so great about it. I think only an arcane user or a Runemaster (who use Arcane in a more eco-friendly way) would care about the flow of ley lines, since the Arcane is abhorrent to Druids for the most part.

Templars, however, are definitely meant to be the armored knight kind like we see in legend, not the d20 book kind. This isn't Argent Templar, this is Knights Templar, or Paladin of being an awesome guy Templar.

All those spy classes separately seemed a bit dumb to me personally, and I think Grakor felt the same way in loking at those as he did about Auradins as a Paladin variant class: Focusing something on a few core mechanics makes sense in d20 but just seems ridiculous in roleplay on CotH. Why would a master spy not be trained how to fight? Why would a master killer not know how to lie low and make sure they aren't caught? All those skills go together, so separating them makes a character super good at one aspect of their craft and not as good or even awful at the other integral parts. It makes an RPG character balanced, but a real person kind of lacking. Also I think you're given room to assume that if you did a cavity search that no one could hide anything. Common sense is key when doing anything in RP, and if it smells like godmoding or unreasonableness it probably is.

If I didn't mention it, I agree wholeheartedly or at least in part in your assessment.

[Beltharean]

Any class with shaman should, and is able to become a Spirit Champion or a Spirit Walker. The Shaman's central trait is that of the ancestor. Sure the average Draenei is too light loving to become a Spirit Champion, but your average Draenei -Shaman- obviously has a connection to the spirits of old and has more than a logical chance of becoming one of these two titles. Troll shamans have arguably, the greatest connection to their spirits of any race. Every time a Witch Doctor, Priest, or Shaman channels a spell they're coming in contact with a spirit. Not an elemental, a spirit. They spend up to four times as much time with actual spirits than the elements, since their control over that realm comes from the spirits of the dead who are granted dominion over parts of nature in the afterlife whereas an Orc shaman would have to commune with four separate elements every time they wanted to cast a different spell. And then the spirits count as a fifth area of specialization for them.

It's stated that they'd be interested in the Ley-lines because they augment -any- type of casting. Even divine. If you had the chance to have all of your spells' power increased, teleport to any point in the world, and be able to heal people with the magical energy of the world would you not leap at the chance if you were a shaman, priest, druid, etc?

[Grakor456]

Just going through the class critiques. A lot of these are the result of you clinging to the d20 lore when we made conscious decisions to move away from it to suit our concept of balance or how we felt the prestige would be better designed for the medium we're using.

Spoiler:

Archmage

• The schools of warcraft were altered here, whether by intention or not I feel that they have been defined extremely well in the World of Warcraft. They are, according to Higher Learning: Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy (illegal for Archmagi, though!) and transmutation. Explanations can be found for what each of these can do here.
  
• I feel some of the spells given to each of the schools underneath 'Mastery of Schools' are misplaced, such as slow fall being under alteration, or polymorph being there as well.
  
• Again underneath Skills and Abilities it feels quite 'Elder Scrolls'-ish, if you know what I mean, when we already have the defined World of Warcraft schools.
  

I wasn't the one who wrote this one (the only ones I actually wrote myself were Ley Walker and part of Spiritwalker) but I don't think the Archmage specializations were meant to apply one to one to the in-game schools of magic. Also, I'm fairly certain that polymorph is, in fact, an alteration spell (being that alteration was another name for transmutation.)

Blademaster:

• Their abilities aren't necessarily elemental in nature. Their speed and skill is blessed by the spirits, and though one might consider their abilities elemental, they appear more magical in nature. Despite this, I'm almost certain it would be believed elemental or spiritual even if it is not. My argument against this mostly stems from fel orcs retaining the same abilities regardless of their spiritual or elemental favor.
  

One could argue that Fel-Blademasters got their abilities from demonic gifts instead. As we're not working with fel orc Blademasters at the moment, I don't feel it's necessary to talk about (though raises the question whether orc DKs could be Blademasters.)

Bone Crusher:

• It might be prudent to mention that once they start moving, it's almost impossible for them to stop. Possibly a weakness?
  
• While I agree their skin is tougher--since they magically gain skin equivalent to platemail, the word impervious might be a bit misleading. They also ignore the attacks not because of their toughened skin, but because of their pain threshold, which is very high. "A bone crusher is easily recognizable, even from afar. The bone crusher's body is littered with scars from battle, and he remembers receiving few, if any, of them. He forsakes armor, relying on his own personal strength and toughness to carry him through battle." They do get hurt, and cut, and stabbed. Often times it's their own rage for some, or their meditative trance while fighting for others.
  
• Theoretically, Humans, Draenei, and even gnomes could become a bone crusher if they so choose.
  
• If one looks in terms of balance, which I suspect was done, a runemaster bonecrusher is somewhat... 'broken'. I know it's possible, but it's going to suck for anyone that wants to go near them in combat. Runes + bone crusher strength = smash everything.
  
• Shield: A Bone Crusher withdraws into themselves, entering a state where they are unable to attack but where all physical damage is negated. A friend pointed this out and I was hoping 'all' didn't mean all! I think it should say "All physical damage within reason" because if I shoot him with a rocket or a crossbow point blank, not even the toughest hide can stand up to that. And still, it seems odd to say you can stab them and nothing will happen, since their skin is the equivalent of armor.
  

Lot to talk about here. First of all, no, humans/gnomes/whatever cannot be Bone Crushers. Not even in the d20. In the d20, the limitation was that it could only apply to races that had a racial bonus to strength, either naturally or due to racial levels. This did not include humans (though, ironically, DID include Forsaken...which we sort of discounted for the sake of sanity.) So, we wanted to keep in the "spirit" of the prestige and keep it to the large, brutish races.

Runemaster-Bone Crushers was something that was argued about for a while. The line of thinking for them was "Bone Crusher is essentially what a physical-focused Runemaster would end up as: a prestige that focuses entirely on unarmed and unarmored fighting." Really, RM abilities are no more broken for this concept than warrior ones, particularly if you consider that Enruned Fists and Runic Resilience end up kind of pointless since Bone Crusher ends up doing better in both fields. The only possible point of OPness here is that RM Bone Crushers can heal, but I don't see that as a big deal.

The rest of this is mostly nit-picking on the wording within the page. Except the whole "one moving, they can't stop" thing, which I feel was an intentional omission. That doesn't even make sense.

Burning Legionnaire:

• Overall it looks good, though I noted 'slow' on the weakness pertaining to no defensive roll bonus. It doesn't make sense considering their armor-like scales, gained from their Thick Hide ability. While you did say it gives increased health points, it seems simply odd that it doesn't help their defense, in fact it seemed slightly odd to mention much about roll combat at all!
  
• Shaman should be either Burning Legionnaire or Diabolist, depending on whether or not they were a (forgive me for using in-game specs) enhancement or elemental/resto shaman.
  
• It's worth mentioning that not all priests will be religiously hindered by their... fel-ification. Certain faiths flat out will not care.
  
• The undead cannot become fel-sworn, it's physically impossible.
  

Forsaken Fel-sworn was probably an oversight. Also, I don't like the idea of Enh Shaman going Burning Legionnaire, no more than I like the idea of Holy Paladins going to Diabolist.

Far Seer:

• Far seers aren't constantly succumbing to visions, while often it's fickle. It can be while they dream, usually, or completely random. Usually they will not be told something unless it is important.
  
• Far seers do not choose when they receive visions, while they can preform a ritual to induce one (i.e. sapta)
  
• Chain Lightning, Far Sight, and Spirit wolf are available to regular shaman. Unless the spirit wolves, however, are permanent, there is no difference.

We might have to tweak the Farseer ability list a bit. I think when I looked at this one I skimmed it.

High Divinist:

• I believe that this prestige is too geared for specific religions. Despite the fact that they gain Estoric Arts, which essentially would let one cast spells more according to their religion.
  
• I feel it's odd that they can cast resurrection without becoming fatigued. To me that means they can wave their hands and revive soldiers as they fall in the battlefield.

Rez without fatigue doesn't mean instant revival.

Ley Walker:

• I don't think it makes sense for Druids and Shaman to be able to become them-- while there is nothing stopping them it would be awkward since Ley-walkers seem to focus more on arcane magic.
  
• Since they use arcane (Ley Walkers can harness the raw arcane energies from the earth) Night elves would become Highborne if they were to do such.

Ley Walker is about using the arcane energy of the ley lines to bolster their magic, regardless of what kind of magic they use. That the ley lines themselves are arcane doesn't matter. This is how Ley Walkers have always worked (and, indeed, work in the d20 if you're going by that lore.)

Because Ley Walkers are exempt from arcane corruption, Nelves can be the prestige safely. Same reason why Nelves can be Runemasters.

Lightslayer:

• Secrecy weakness: While true, it would be hard to get the secrets, it is possible. Unless this meant willingly it's a bit restrictive.
  

No comment, this is rather nit-picky on a point I don't think needs to be picked at.

Mountain Kings:

• A Mountain King can use ranged equipment if so desired, however they are no dead shot.
  

This was done for balance, same reason the same note was made for Bone Crushers.

Myrmidon:

• Theoretically anyone can be a myrmidon! Battlemagi, paladins, battle-priests. Almost anyone who fights in an arena, while some would be less likely than others.
  
• A myrmidon shouldn't need to fight in the arena, in my opinion. Of course, it should definitely be a part of them, but it is possible for them to retire or do something else.
  

Anyone can fight in an arena. Not everyone can specialize in the particular manner of arena-fighting that Myrmidons specialize in. Also, being forced to fight is one of the main drawbacks to the prestige, so that's not going to change.

Potion Doc:

• Potion docs and Witch Doctors... aren't the same. They are essentially just extremely skillful alchemists.
  
• Trolls - particularly jungle trolls - are the most likely to become potion docs, as they have a strong witch doctor tradition. Forsaken apothecaries, with their interest in dark alchemy, and gnomes, with their scientific interests, and goblins, some of Azeroth's premier alchemists, are also likely candidates. Potion docs among other races are rare.
  
• I think the potion doc spoken of here is much too specified!

This one was a result of Potion Doc actually being Witchdoctor first, and then Rigley suggesting just a name change because I adamantly refused to allow Witchdoctor to be a prestige. We'll probably need to alter this one at some point, yes.

Primal:

• Hunters and rogues (while the latter less likely) are also prime candidates. It depends more on the person!
  
• Smart Choice sounds more like a strength than a skill or ability.
  

Hunters would make a poor choice, as they're a ranged class and Primals specializing in such is nonsensical. Rogues...maybe.

Shadow Ascendant:

• Dissipate is the same spell as Dispersion of the shadow priest, unless this was intended!
  

It's helpful for Shadow Ascendants who are not, in fact, priests.

Shadow Hunter:

• I think the shadow hunter should have some way to craft their own spells-- the current spells are very similar to regular abilities every day classes get, though interesting. As we can see with with Vol'jin, he does much more than the abilities given (barring his lore characterness, we do see him do some interesting things like using a soul to contact Thrall from a different plane of existence, and calling a loa spirit to aid him in battle.
  

Vol'jin is a lore character, I don't think we can necessarily use him as a standard for anything.

Spirit Champion:

• I will say it's odd that Draenei can become them-- it's never happened in lore and since they've only just discovered their shamanistic heritage it seems... off. Especially when you see that they've been using the elements, not spirits.
  
• If a warrior can become one, so can a hunter.
  

No to Hunters. Hunters are ranged combatants, Spirit Champion is a close-combat prestige. As far as Draenei go, I think it'd be more odd if they didn't have any shaman prestiges at all.

Spirit Walker:

• Again, Draenei don't make sense here at all. Draenei have not ever been known to have spirit walkers, and it wouldn't make sense as they focus on elemental shamanism in lieu of ancestor worship. Trolls are undocumented as well, and since a Spirit walker is chosen by the Spirits, I think it'd be a stretch to say either a Draenei or Troll player character could be the first.
  

This one was an oversight. Spiritwalkers should only be Tauren and Orcs.

Techno-mage:

• I'm still of the opinion that necromancers could be them.

No. (Rigley apparently disagrees, so maybe yes. We'll see.)

Templar:

• Technically a priest could become one too!

Not our version.

Warden:

• Where did... blink go? D:
  

Oversight.

Whisper Blade:

• This one slightly annoys me. It's basically a renamed assassin, combining concepts from infiltrator and spymaster.
  
• I wouldn't say no one likes them. It depends not only on your personality, but also other factors. For example, I doubt Forsaken would care about the fact that "in the end, they're still murderers." Also, I'm sure many organizations like Ravenholt or Syndicate would admire and love the Whisper Blade.
  
• Conceal: So if I strip you naked and burn your clothes I wouldn't find it? That leaves only a few places left to check.
  
• I think I'd prefer the established assassin, spymaster, infiltrator or such as separate classes. IT was much more interesting to me personally.

Whisper Blade was intended as the replacement for Assassin, as Assassin as a name was not very...prestige-y (in the same way that Myrmidon was a name replacement for Gladiator. Gladiator and Assassin are names of jobs, not prestigious positions.) Spymaster and Infiltrator were both very...difficult with the nature of the server, so they were kicked. That pretty much just leaves this, so I think you'll have to remain irritated.

Conceal: It's magic.

[Xigo]

Huh. I'll be making changes to Archmage then. My thanks.

[Uthaniel]

Given that we're not clinging to D20 lore, it'd be interesting if Shamans could ask the spirits to give their memories/visions form; Thrall did this to convince Garrosh of Grom's honor, and given that this would be essentially a "flavor" power, as the conjured images would work like actors following their role to the letter, they would be completely harmless and immaterial.

That said, it's also odd that Spellbreakers are allowed, as they're no longer being trained by anyone.

Q: What has become of the blood elf Spellbreakers?

A: While they were already few in number to begin with, the ranks of this formidable fighting force were thinned drastically when their headquarters on the Isle of Quel'Danas was overwhelmed by Kael'thas and his Burning Legion forces. The lone squad that remains now exists as a relic of a bygone era, as the Spellbreakers have refrained from training any new recruits since Kael'thas's betrayal.

But that's of little importance. As I skim through the profiles and read them more, I'll see if I have something else to say. Probably not. But still.

EDIT: That said, Spellbreaker isn't available and I misread something Binkleheimer said. Mea culpa. (Then again, I'm assuming it's not as there isn't a Spellbreaker page on the wiki; I might be wrong, so the post is being left here nonetheless.)

[muhaha8]

I would like to add... Draenei Fel Sworn make no sense, IMO... One of four things happens from the level of Fel exposure required... You die, you become a Broken, a Lost One or a Man'ari Eredar. The very first is the most likely, IMO.

[Aphetoros]

Mmh, a lot has been cleared up now and I am happy! Thanks you guys for explaining some of the concerns I had and such, and I hope I was at least slightly helpful <3

[Rosencrat]

I would like to add... Draenei Fel Sworn make no sense, IMO... One of four things happens from the level of Fel exposure required... You die, you become a Broken, a Lost One or a Man'ari Eredar. The very first is the most likely, IMO.

Ethics, not physical restrictions, are the biggest deterrent to a Draenei becoming a Fel-Sworn.

Draenei actually take very well to Fel when given it by a demonic master. The only problem is when they are expossed to it in un-regulated amounts, where it struggles against their Light-given abilities and causes mutations.

Draenei are rare, but not unheard of, which is why we include them.

I am also of the opinion undead may become Fel-Sworn, though that is a different, much longer debate.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Would a Draenei becoming a Felsworn become an Eredar? Likewise for Blood Elves - Felblood Elves and Night Elves - Satyr.

[Rosencrat]

Would a Draenei becoming a Felsworn become an Eredar? Likewise for Blood Elves - Felblood Elves and Night Elves - Satyr.

Yes.

[Binkleheimer]

Given that we're not clinging to D20 lore, it'd be interesting if Shamans could ask the spirits to give their memories/visions form; Thrall did this to convince Garrosh of Grom's honor, and given that this would be essentially a "flavor" power, as the conjured images would work like actors following their role to the letter, they would be completely harmless and immaterial.

That said, it's also odd that Spellbreakers are allowed, as they're no longer being trained by anyone.

Q: What has become of the blood elf Spellbreakers?

A: While they were already few in number to begin with, the ranks of this formidable fighting force were thinned drastically when their headquarters on the Isle of Quel'Danas was overwhelmed by Kael'thas and his Burning Legion forces. The lone squad that remains now exists as a relic of a bygone era, as the Spellbreakers have refrained from training any new recruits since Kael'thas's betrayal.

But that's of little importance. As I skim through the profiles and read them more, I'll see if I have something else to say. Probably not. But still.

EDIT: That said, Spellbreaker isn't available and I misread something Binkleheimer said. Mea culpa. (Then again, I'm assuming it's not as there isn't a Spellbreaker page on the wiki; I might be wrong, so the post is being left here nonetheless.)

The template got approved. It hasn't been added to the wiki yet.

As a side note, Del's training happened well before 24 days ago. IE before this article ever came out

On top of that, some of the stuff on the linked paged are patch ups for holes in the lore that people decided to ask and could be seen as a way of not having to add them in game.

Which also makes me question, in a world full of magic, why wouldn't you want to train more magic immune warriors and/or people trained specifically to take down spell casters?



Edit: The page is also up now.

[Jurkey]

So, Coriv is now a Whisper Blade and not an assassin, it seems.
The "Marked Target" thing is a tad confusing though. Is it absolutely required?

Also, you could list him as one of the trainers on the Wiki, as he'd now be a Whisper Blade.

[Reese]

Huh. I just read up on the Shadow Hunter prestige and, funnily enough, it's pretty much exactly how I planned Jezzan as doing it.

<3 the GM team for being psychic.

[BountyHunter]

The "Marked Target" thing is a tad confusing though. Is it absolutely required?

If you plan on playing a Whisper Blade (or any prestige for that matter) you need to RP the weaknesses in full.

Hence, you must do Marked Target.

Simply said, you are to warn your targets that they are being hunted in order to make the hunt fair for them. It's the honor which the Whisper Blades have that they must follow or else they wouldn't be Whisper Blades.

If you do not wish to be a Whisper Blade, feel free to remain as an Assassin and leave out the Whisper Blade's abilities from your repertoire.

[Jurkey]

Well, I obtained the assassin prestige with Coriv, but now assassin is changed to Whisper Blade, wouldn't that make him a Whisper Blade instead then?