Would anyone really mind if GMs could RP dragons as characters?

[Caravan]

Minor events could be fixed point---- *dragged off to the Caravans of Time* :P

[Kage]

So.. Dragons as characters.. Your talking about the ones that not only shape the land but even time right? Like with almost god like powers, that of course were granted by the titans to safeguard the world from the Cataclysm, as playable characters? I'm gonna say no, but for a different reason entirely.

Lets say your a new player, everyone has to be equal right? In a character sense all are equal, then a GM pops in as their dragon. As an experienced player you'd look at it like "Woot event!" As a new player.. It's more like "oh.. GMs are gods.. I could never talk to them..." And trust me, that would happen. For event purposes? They'd see it as an event thing, because that's what it is. Outside events? It's like watching the president swing on a swing set.

So to be blunt and keep new players from being intimidated from GMs because they're playing as dragons, I'm gonna say no.

[Krilari]

Kage, the dragons given the ability to shape the world are more the aspects. They are the all-powerful dragons. We're talking about playing run-of-the-mill dragons, drakes, and even whelps. And, as I said prior, we wouldn't be using these dragons for things such as combat or anything else that would make them unfairly over-powered compared to the others.

[Kage]

Still, as a new player if a GM swoops in as 'just' a run-of-the-mill dragon (It's still a dragon) you feel intimidated. Personally I would. If I were to talk to a GM, who plays as a dragon, the teller of glorious tales, I wouldn't be talking for long, and if at all. Hell I was worried when I first joined because my grammar was horrible, so I stayed away from GMs for fear of the banhammer (True story mates). And if my first interaction with a GM was them being a dragon? I wouldn't even post on the forums for fear I'd look like an idiot.

These are my personal feelings, and I'm sure I'm not the only one with them, nor will I be the last one to join this server feeling as such.

[c0rzilla]

...I'm not so sure, Kage.

I'll use a retail example to explain my noob self.

When I first, first started playing WoW, I had waltzed into Stormwind. My timing was impeccable, because right at that moment someone was either dragging a dragon NPC to Stormwind, or finishing the Vanilla Onyxia quest chain. The practical results were a huge black dragon utterly destroying my level 5 self.

I thought it was the best thing ever. And then I ran around like WHEN'LL THAT HAPPEN AGAIN.

So, I don't know. The GMs wouldn't do something like that, but from my perspective, seeing such proportions active on the server, able to be interacted with would entice me. And, more likely than not, the dragons would be about in their mortal guises. Not flying around spewing fire.

And, to reiterate: vast, vast difference between the Aspects and their offspring.

[Kage]

I'd like to point out that those are my personal feelings. Everyone has their own, and I'm sure I wont be the only one feeling as such. The idea of even a drake suddenly swooping into the rp and asking the others OOCly who that was only to learn it was a gm would prevent me from wanting to talk to them unless it was needed due to the fact that I would feel inferior. The purpose of this thread was to see if anyone had issues with it, not to tell someone that their personal feelings are blown out of the facts.

[Delta]

After seeing the Dragonsworn system in action, I can't help but view it as flawed and a bit of a failure. I love that people can play Dragonsworn and have that kind of connection to such fantastical creatures, but the execution wasn't quite how I pictured it.

People have asked us to begin engaging with their characters in social roleplay. I understand that Dragonsworn crave interaction with their patrons - being sworn to a dragon, you'd hope to see them every now and then - but I frequently feel as though people are forgetting the scale of these creatures and seeking the kind of roleplay they'd be better seeking in friends' characters.

Although some of our Draenei and Night Elves are older than the dragons the GMs puppet, dragons have access to a wealth of secrets, both magical and natural, that no mortal could ever hope to comprehend. Their race was literally touched by the Titans, blessed in a way that connects them to the forces of creation and (potentially) destruction that the Titans are capable of.

Every time I log onto Shalara, I wonder if I'm doing her and her race even a minute amount of justice. Would she really do this? Why would she care about that? What are her motivations, what drives her? It's taxing, and I don't think her true colours would shine any other time than in the company of her kin, in the Emerald Dream. Her relationship with mortals is distant and detached, and although she is, as are all green dragons, fascinated by their dreams and ambitions, she and they are enormously different entities. She requests their assistance in desperate times, and has a respectful understanding of many of Azeroth's races, but I struggle to envision her truly connecting with a mortal outside of extraordinary circumstances.

I like that dragons are beginning to place their faith in mortals, and I'm trying to emulate that myself - the gradual earning of trust. My honest thoughts are that I would rather... I think I would sooner see people playing their own Dragonsworn patrons, or people being allowed to apply for the position on a 'Storyteller CMC' basis. That would allow people to adapt the patrons to better suit their characters, whilst still giving us direct control to make sure that silly things don't happen when people are put behind the wheel of an immortal, powerful being.

Still, things are as they are, and there is no changing them. I think dragons could potentially be involved in more minor events and have a little more personal time with their Dragonsworn, but it should seldom be interaction on a social basis, and woe be tide anyone who tries to use their patron as a councillor for relationship troubles.

[Krilari]

Remember: These dragons would be under disguise. Most of the time you wouldn't even know the character is a dragon. There is no swooping or morphing or anything in public 99% of the time.

[c0rzilla]

I'm seeing your viewpoint Kage, I do. But I do think this thread is also open to disagreements, and an attempt to sway perspectives. Is it not?

You seem to have this image that the GMs will "swoop in" on their dragons, all almighty, and it just won't work that way. I'm not sullying your entire position, but that key point, is--well, incorrect.

Edit: Ninja posted not once, but twice.

[Harmonic]

I could understand if dragons flew around and stuff and popped into town all like "Sup? I'm a dragon." with a GM tag on, while breathing fire and going all Cata on people, but that's really not the case.

Really, with your argument Kage, -any- puppeted NPC of certain size could be seen as intimidating. Like Clovis with the Kraken. That thing was freakin' huge.

[Kage]

But there is still the 1%. 99% of the time you wont get sick if you eat [insert delicious food name], but if there's still the one percent, how many people would actually try it? If your gonna play as a dragon hiding, keep it hidden then. In an event, pop out as a dragon.

And there's a difference between puppet and a character. The main difference is, ones a character. Keep the dragon as an npc, and new players wont look at GM's as if they had three eyes cause they can make dragon profiles while everyone else can't.

[Krilari]

If your gonna play as a dragon hiding, keep it hidden then. In an event, pop out as a dragon.

That's what we're saying. Most of the time you wouldn't even know the character is a dragon. If there were ever to break their cover, it would most likely be for a massive storyline.

[Dae]

But there is still the 1%. 99% of the time you wont get sick if you eat [insert delicious food name], but if there's still the one percent, how many people would actually try it? If your gonna play as a dragon hiding, keep it hidden then. In an event, pop out as a dragon.

And there's a difference between puppet and a character. The main difference is, ones a character. Keep the dragon as an npc, and new players wont look at GM's as if they had three eyes cause they can make dragon profiles while everyone else can't.

A big part of the purpose of this thread was to make it clear whether or not the community is OK with proper, discrete dragons. If the GM team just said "We make dragons now because we say so" it wouldn't be very nice and all, but if the playerbase itself were to give permission, with the understanding that it would facilitate good RP, the "fairness" at that point isn't all that violated.
I get the concern for new players, but we can't really make decisions based on who might think what of us in the future.

If we were to allow dragons now, a new user in the future is perfectly free to speak their mind and express their views about this. But if they fail to discuss the matter, are unwilling to look at the past relevant discussion (this thread) and instead are going to come to conclusions and freak out over GMs, well... that's really not our problem, is it?

CotH gives everyone plenty of opportunity to get help and discuss their ideas and issues, and whether or not someone takes advantage of it is their choice.


And on another note, I think the GM puppet dragons should remain as they are to serve the community and to make sure that a GM's personal dragon character doesn't have to reveal themselves just willy-nilly.

[Reigen]

I really don't think the GMs should be playing a dragon character as a personal character. I like the way they are set up now, NPCs for events that are easier to use than spawning an NPC to puppet and move around.

I fear that if this starts happening, we'll start sinking down to a retail level of RP. First it will be dragons, then lore figures will be showing up all willy-nilly to talk to people at the nearest bar. I sort of see this as a gate-way to not-so-pleasant things. If this would have gone on when I was first joining the server, it would have been one of those red flags that likely would have driven me away when I already had enough issues with approaching a GM. This is, however, coming from a person with a great paranoia of 'the worst will always happen'.

I think it's special enough that we even have the option to log onto a character that is a dragon. Granted, I see the position as putting me in a spot where I am able to help others. Being a GM is special privilege enough, I don't expect to be able to play over-powered creatures willy-nilly. It's the last thing I personally want to see. I don't want to feel like I'm getting access to super-duper things because I want to help the community, that cheapens it somewhat for me.

In the end, it would largely be up to Kretol anyway. If he says we can play 'personal dragon characters', then so be it. It's just not something I think is necessary and I feel it projects the wrong image. The only reason I would think so many would be okay with it is for the chance to RP with a dragon and brag about it when it's found out.

It's not something I want to see myself. If I need to play one for anything, I'll just use an NPC.

[Kage]

If your gonna play as a dragon hiding, keep it hidden then. In an event, pop out as a dragon.

That's what we're saying. Most of the time you wouldn't even know the character is a dragon. If there were ever to break their cover, it would most likely be for a massive storyline.

But what about the forums? My issue is simply that if a new person looks at the wiki, then see's a character section for dragon and see that there are profiles there just for gms, it'll segregate the forums. I left for a -year- because I felt like I was nothing in comparison with everyone else, and that was without people making dragon profiles. My -personal-, let me stress that, personal, my own feelings, is that if I joined this server and saw the GMs making dragon profiles I'd feel scared and -never- want to talk to them on a personal level.

I dislike having anyone seem more 'special' then anyone else, and I think this would make it seem so. Not that it would, but as a person who wasn't part of this conversation or hasn't talked to anyone about how the dragons aren't that special, they wouldn't think so. Remember, -dragon-. That's an intimidation factor.