Would anyone really mind if GMs could RP dragons as characters?

[Dae]

From what I understand, we have the existing GM-only dragons for each flight just for the sake of providing a persistent contact for dragonsworn and for event purposes and the likes. These are used by any GMs to fulfill whatever role is needed. And while dragons are clearly a non-playable race due to speshulness and sheer power, I wouldn't mind GMs having the priveledge of playing them. And I don't just mean to puppet a generic dragon, I mean to make characters that they RP with as they please, and have their own personal agenda.

I know it wouldn't be in the spirit of fairness to let only one group of people play a special race, and I would never want dragons to be open to whomever just waltzes onto our server and wants to play a superpowered iguana, but I really trust our GMs, both to play good characters and to be able to handle criticism if anyone felt they were overstepping.

Personally, I'd love to have dragons be a part of our world. Have them discuss issues with the dragonsworn, try to subtly influence the happenings of CotH, and to even impart their wisdom upon our characters in passing. And if given the choice between just GMs playing dragons and no dragons at all, (other than as the puppets we have now) I know what I'd choose.

And I do appreciate all the self-policing our GM team does; thats part of what makes CotH such a great and consistent experience. But I think for a situation like this, especially when we have a whole group of characters with a significant aspect that could be greatly furthered by interacting with dragons with the Dergenswers, I think you guys could lighten up a little.

So, do others feel as I do, or do yall have continuity/fairness/etc. related objections?

[Kira13]

It's not that I, personally, don't trust our GM's. The most obvious problem I see is that people will, if offered this privilege, crowd to becoming GMs. So they are more powerful. And don't care much for the others. Of course, this is the worst case scenario, which can nonetheless happen.

The second problem is that dragons are, in WoW, omens or important figures, often tied to important events. Important, as in those that should be dealt with by Blizzard, and not some private server that, by the way, tries its very best to keep everything as Blizzard means it. Even though it's bad. No offense, CotH, I still love you!

My opinion and two cents. TAKE ALL MY MONEY.

[c0rzilla]

You can't really "crowd" to become a GM, though. Far as I know, the position isn't signed up for, like with Forum Helpers. If one was just playing nice for power, they'd be quickly picked up on. And not given power.

Also, there's a difference between Alexstrasza and one of her many sons or daughters. Or grandchildren. Dragons are out and about all day every day with mysterious agendas the mortals we play are clueless too.

So, yeah. Touche! And stuff.

[Harmonic]

Honestly, what's the point of people being GM's if they can't do stuff like this?

I think people see Gm's these days as other players, and that's not the case. They are GAME MASTERS.

Edit: Also, GM's aren't made by a random drawing or through application, the other GM's pick people whom they think would be good candidates, and often put them through the 'ringer' to see if they are worthy. Hence why they usually go from forum helper, to trial, THEN to full GM.

[Rowgen]

I do have a problem with Dragons - of any kind - morphing into humanoid races to beat the crap out of a guy in the arena in Gurubashi with their l33t dr4g0n sk!llz!!!111lol!!1 (I probably failed the pro-speak, sue me), purely for their own entertainment's sake and without any ulterior motive to spark a storyline or whatever a scenario like that could've sparked. But luckily, I trust the GMs enough to don't do that. Because they wouldn't.

I don't have a problem with Dragons used to spark pluri-participant storylines, event chains or a simply a series of mini-events. Refer to Caravan's Out of Time, it's a perfect example of this, and also of what I believe the GMs would, could and perhaps even should use Dragons for.

However, a clear line should be drawn between a character and an NPC. With that, I mean there should be a certain level of restrictions to a Dragon.

EDIT: With restrictions, I mean to refer to my above examples; The GM could have the character in their character list, use them from time to time for stuff related to their storylines or whatever, but ultimately they should be treated like a CMC. Something to entertain other players, not themselves.

Caravan Edit: Fixed dat pro-speak.

[Krilari]

You make a fair point Rowgen. The dragons should not and would not be used for arena fights or such. There most certainly will be restrictions upon the characters if we are even allowed to play them. However, I do not feel the need to make them purely for events because that's what we do with the dragons we have now.

Our current dragons exist on accounts separate from our own and are shared amongst every GM. There is no 'personal' dragon. These dragons come out to further a story and then go back into storage for the next week until its time to push the story some more. What I, personally, would like is the ability to play a dragon that has a personal tie. A dragon that would be able to go around and influence the mortals of this world without requiring a huge major storyline to act as an excuse to do so.

EDIT: As well, I don't like the idea that CMCs/Dragons/What have you should be used only for others. They're your character that you made. You should be able to get some personal entertainment out of it yourself.

[Rowgen]

Bottom line, I concluded that perhaps treating them like CMCs would be for the best, in which case it is possible to do such things, Krilari. All I'm saying is that dragons is a... Difficult subject. Either it can go really well or really bad. I have faith the GMs could manage it, though.

EDIT: In response to your edit; Aye, I agree. At the end of the day, that's why I closed Garm's CMC. Trust me, I know.

[Caravan]

I'm a supporter of this, obviously, but I disagree with treating them as CMCs -- most, if not all, of the time, the average player would have no idea they were interracting with a dragon. It's not like they'd be walking in full-scale in the cities. They'd be disguised, like all dragons are.

[Rowgen]

I believe we've differing views on how CMCs are used, in that case. As I recall, most of the time I used Garm almost the same as any other character, though he tended to stick around in the same area... Something I realize Dragon's probably wouldn't do, and something I don't think they should, either. Either way, when I couldn't enjoy him anymore, I deleted him like any other character.

[Caravan]

Admittedly, there's a huge difference between a Fel Orc and a Dragon, Rowgen :P. You couldn't not notice Garm and his mutation. His very nature did limit him in where he could go and what he could do.

[Harmonic]

I think CMC's complicate something that should be simple. I know these days GM's don't pull the "cause we're GM's card, that's why", because it seldom went with the explanation portion. Well, here's the explanation. GM's puppet things in the world, as well as play them, to provide to people the opportunity to interact with the world in a way that couldn't be done on say, a retail server. Considering that right now CoTH doesn't want to deviate from set lore, this can be a bit tricky.

To be fair, I think a lot of people have this in mind when it comes to some event like this. As someone has already pointed out, Dragons are a -huge- event. Them coming around means something is happening.

In my humble opinion-----great. Please make something happen! Because right now CoTH is getting stagnant, what with Cata being put on the waiting list. I think it might be a good idea to get a little bit of lore bendin' out of the way because honestly, it keeps CoTH from becoming the massive tea-party that it feels like right now.






Yes. I said CoTH feels like a massive tea-party right now. This is my own opinion, but it's backed up by the lack of any motivational or large events, as I'm sure the GM's haven't done that now for fear of restarts or the like... but to be honest it feels a bit boring.




Ranting tangenting rambling old manning the issue aside, I'm somewhat astounded that we've gotten to the point where it's even being second guessed. If the Gm's wanted to make Sin'Sholai round deus or have Arthas rise again to wreak havoc on all the kittens of the world, have at it. I mean, that's part of the fun of a PRIVATE SERVER.



I absolutely hate it when people put too much logic in a player-created game. Have fun with what's presented!


Edit: Phew. That feels better.

[Dae]

End of the day, I concluded that perhaps treating them like CMCs would be for the best, in which case it is possible to do such things, Krilari. All I'm saying is that dragons is a... Difficult subject. Either it can go really well or really bad. I have faith the GMs could manage it, though.

EDIT: In response to your edit; Aye, I agree. At the end of the day, that's why I closed Garm's CMC. Trust me, I know.

Yes, dragons are a difficult subject, but a big part of dragons is that none of our characters should ever know who is a dragon, other than dragonsworn and other dragons. Being attention addicts and getting too involved in mortal affairs really isn't a dragonie sort of thing to do.

Short of event-worthy happenings, in which its already appropriate for them to be a part of, I can't really see a well played dragon doing anything that a normal character wouldn't be allowed to.

But I do have to agree that anyone playing such powerful characters on CotH should be doing so with the generation of good RP for everyone in mind. I think that the existence of dragons among our characters, even if they likely would never be find out by most, could still benefit the server as a whole.

And who better to do that than the people who already work for everyone's benefit OoCly?

[Zhaei]

I think the concern isn't whether the GMs would or wouldn't abuse the privilege, it's how far they would realistically be involved in our RP. I strongly disagree with the idea of having them playable as characters, not because they would be abused, because dragons couldn't care less about mortal affairs on the scale we RP. The few times in IG questing we do a dragon's deed are all, AFAIK, they revolve around dragon's own affairs (Wyrmrest, Dragonshrines, Coldarra) or major events that threaten something important (Caverns of Time).

I think there should be more lenience in playing them, but I don't think they should be RPable as characters like any other, simply because that would be, at least IMO, an inaccurate representation of them. Have more events involving the flights and their affairs, pop in with a dragon-character and create an impromptu quest to right X wrong (similar to Delta's Green events).

[Rowgen]

At Dae's last reply, I agree fully, though I'm more concerned with the reaction of the players than the qualifications of the GMs. I'm not against Dragons, I'm just raising questions I think many would find relevant to it. Playing the Devil's advocate, I suppose. :P

EDIT: And then comes Zhaei, with his ninjaing.

EDIT 2: To be blunt, in direct response to the thread's title, I think... Yes, people will mind, but I won't.

[Krilari]

I wouldn't say the dragons don't care. Through the process of leveling through retail an uncountable amount of time, I have seen dragons come in rather casually into your character. For example, there's a bronze dragon in Shattrath that gives you a quest to talk to an ogre who's down on his luck and needs help with his clan. That's really not a major event. It doesn't require the full-on attention of the dragonflights, but the dragons are still compassionate enough to help him despite how minor the event may be.