Conquest of the Horde

This thread exploded rather quickly. I suppose I should finally throw in what I've been saying on vent on the subject.

I am 100% against this idea, and hope it never happens. The reasons for this are many:

1. Drama magnet. I dread the headaches this would cause.
2. The concept of a truly "lawless" town is really flawed. No town is truly lawless, there's always someone in charge.
3. We made this restart with the express idea that we would not be making major changes to the landscape or lore, in order to keep in line with Cataclysm. Making an entire town goes against this.
4. Due to the nature of this place, either many players won't take part, or most won't go with their mains in order to not let them die.
5. Despite the results of this poll, most people hate losing their characters they spent a lot of time with. Coupled with #4, I anticipate that this town would die very quickly. I give it a month to last, at most, then all that work will have been wasted.
6. If people don't go here with their mains, and mostly use throw-away characters, it would be barely incorporated with the rest of the world. Why bother?

I really don't like this. We'll see, though.

And no, we're not uprooting any towns. Including the one in Dustwallow.

All points above are painfully valid. But, at any rate, I would ask; there's a town there? Because it isn't on the map. I picked it from memory of the zone. As far as I know, there is relatively nothing to the east of that tower. I suppose I could be wrong. Either way, I think it must be moot point with the aforementioned flaws.

Im with Grakor. It sounds like just a bad idea. I wouldn't take any of my characters near there personally. Even joke characters.

I would personally go to this town on my main, quite eagerly in fact. It would be something to break up the monotony of what has become a never ending cycle of random RP, feeling in a child's fantasy book, and plain alt tabbing until the next response is posted during any RP. You loose that sense of immersion when you RP in a totally safe area, caring little if not at all about anything other than the next post form the person you're RPing with.

It would be a nice change of pace to truly be aware of ones surroundings at all times, and actually know what to say and how to say it instead of stringing words and sentences together. There needs to be a place where we have to analyze what we actually say to each other, what we actually mean and how we actually express it. There is no greater incentive for this than having something on the line.

The term lawlessness, like the term justice, is never carried out to the exact measurement of its definition, just take a look at the real world around us. Sure you can say nothing is ever lawless, but what we mean when we say that is a place that isn't bound by the same rules as all the other cities and towns. This is a place where we can get away with being less than an upstanding citizen.

From what has been said in this thread and perhaps an extent elsewhere, this wouldn't be a huge change to lore or landscape. It will be a simple run down gathering of buildings. Perhaps town is too strong a word for it. Regardless of what word that is chosen to label this place, it is no major change to anything that is already going on. To put it in reality, history has had thousands if not millions of settlements created and destroyed within human existence, yet the books we read and lessons we learn don't ever tell us of them. This is the Warcraft equivalent.

Drama in this area can be easily lessened with commonsense, a skill we here are all familiar with. As stated before this post, if one don't want to be in an area with higher risk of harm than in another place, one should reevaluate RPing here. It may look as if every conflict will end in death on paper, but I can almost certainly guarantee that things will pan out differently once set in motion. Furthermore, I think it needs to be stressed that there should be an equal chance of harm to both parties involved. If two players go at it in a knife fight, both of them have precisely the same exact chance of getting cut as the other. However that can be countered with numbers, but only fools will go into a fight (Or not back down from one) if they are clearly outnumbered.

I'm strongly for this idea, and would love to see it come to fruition. Change isn't a bad thing, everything needs to evolve to keep going. To me, this is a glimpse into evolution of the server, if not RP as a whole, where a greater amount of knowledge is necessary to adapt and eventually thrive.

Hmm... I like this idea, but at the same time fear that/know a guild would want to claim the area if it started to have a population. If not than there would have to be order, someone being the leader of the town etc. but generally the idea is we need more free RP instead of being pinned down by gaurds or being killed when leaving a town. Being able to step foot into a town that has no rules, but at the same time you can attempt to enforce your set of rules.

But all together I would believe it would bust into conflicts, or everyone would be afraid to fight, because of the thought of being ganked.

Grakor456 Wrote:1. Drama magnet. I dread the headaches this would cause.
2. The concept of a truly "lawless" town is really flawed. No town is truly lawless, there's always someone in charge.
3. We made this restart with the express idea that we would not be making major changes to the landscape or lore, in order to keep in line with Cataclysm. Making an entire town goes against this.
4. Due to the nature of this place, either many players won't take part, or most won't go with their mains in order to not let them die.
5. Despite the results of this poll, most people hate losing their characters they spent a lot of time with. Coupled with #4, I anticipate that this town would die very quickly. I give it a month to last, at most, then all that work will have been wasted.
6. If people don't go here with their mains, and mostly use throw-away characters, it would be barely incorporated with the rest of the world. Why bother?

Grakor456 Wrote:1. Drama magnet. I dread the headaches this would cause.

The sorry and pathetic truth is people fight of the most trivial of things.
It can almost be promised that someone is going to get all sore and start
whining about how their character got killed or some mess like that.

I like the idea; it's pretty damned nifty.

But I can just see the OOC conflicts that will spring up because of this.
Also, people are fickle and eager to jump on the bandwagon.
It'd die down pretty quickly with a lack of real purpose.

Well, I don't want to see a town in an in game sense spring up outta the ground, as simply, make a whole town and 80% of it is gonna be unpopulated anyway most likely. Im thinking a tavern, a supply room, and a run down bedsit. or if the tavern had rooms with beds, then it could literally just be, tavern, with a second building to the side. Kinda like the halfway refuge for criminals.

And, while many people say this is going to cause a heck of a lot of OOC drama, i say, it will cause no more than the current character warning system does once its established. I mean, its kinda like that MAD (mutually assured destruction) Concept, no-one is gonna be an idiot for very long, because it would result in them themselves being killed or driven away. The RP would self regulate and self perpetuate, with each person keeping out of trouble for fear of a backlash from everyone else. Admittedly, there is a chance it wouldn't go that way but I believe as a community, we are mature enough to not act like idiots and accept some responsibility for what happens to our characters, and handle it when bad things happen. I'm gonna bring my main here, course I am, and keep outta trouble. If trouble finds me, ill run. If by some miracle I manage to aggravate the whole town, then my character will die. But it will be awesome RP, and ill enjoy every minute. And anyway, not only villains can thrive in the place if its truly neutral. What's to say the mysterious hooded stranger in the corner doesn't grab you and pull you outta town and outta harms way before the mob forms? That would make for a great introduction between two characters, and could start off another kind of RP you couldn't find without organising it specifically for that purpose.

No-one will really be killing out of pride, or honour here either, which seems to be a motivator outsider of the place, cause heck, if your in a place like this, you wouldn't HAVE pride, or honour most likely.

Danger will make this exciting for me, and it will be interesting to see characters react under pressure, fear, intimidation, see tough characters back down and cowardly characters throw their lives on the line to help others. Brings out a whole range of things that I feel are missing in cotton wool RP

I voted other.

I think that a "lawless town" would be interesting, but I don't think it should be fully lawless because it'd end up being a battlefield for the daft. I can see it now, people who freely say "I'm going to kill you now," and voila, there's drama! So, I think to support this idea there should be a certain degree of IC and strict OOC rules of what you can and can't do. That's what I believe anyway.

I don't think the "cotton wool" rp is a result of not having a lawless town. I think it results from a couple of things:

1) People unwilling to roleplay dangerous rp

and

2) People unwilling to leave towns.

One of the reasons to support number 2, I think, is partially because of the aggro making it ridiculous to do things like travel rp. Even then I remember a good rp out in Northrend where me and my party were scattered and we had to find our way back together, despite Vrykul and undead from New Aggamand. It was dangerous, and all PvE, and the party nearly got killed trying to fight a vrykul, even.

In the end WoW itself has a lot of things, it just depends on what you make of it. If you want danger rp then arrange some with friends. I don't think having a new rp location is going to magically change the server.

It reminds me of the people who say we should have more war. Most make the complaints that it'd only make sense that we should be warring, but I have only seen a very few actually make guilds and try to lead a cause.

Also I don't see while seeking out other different styles of rp we need to give names to the rp we don't like. "Cotton wool" rp seems kinda derogatory to the other rpers.

All in all, if you want danger, then make danger. Be creative; we have all of Azeroth, Outland and Northrend. Surely there's a location that can fit your needs, or the right group of rpers.

Personally, I believe this idea would be very good. The only thing which really worries me and makes me not really want to go to the town is the fact you're wishing to force character warnings onto people just for setting foot in it. That's the part which really does annoy me. Someone could simply give someone a drink, be all friendly like and then tell them after they take a sip 'Oh, it was laced with poison, you'll die in an hour'. There is nothing stopping someone from doing that, nothing at all.

Inhibitor Wrote:I would personally go to this town on my main, quite eagerly in fact. It would be something to break up the monotony of what has become a never ending cycle of random RP, feeling in a child's fantasy book, and plain alt tabbing until the next response is posted during any RP. You loose that sense of immersion when you RP in a totally safe area, caring little if not at all about anything other than the next post form the person you're RPing with.

It would be a nice change of pace to truly be aware of ones surroundings at all times, and actually know what to say and how to say it instead of stringing words and sentences together. There needs to be a place where we have to analyze what we actually say to each other, what we actually mean and how we actually express it. There is no greater incentive for this than having something on the line.

The term lawlessness, like the term justice, is never carried out to the exact measurement of its definition, just take a look at the real world around us. Sure you can say nothing is ever lawless, but what we mean when we say that is a place that isn't bound by the same rules as all the other cities and towns. This is a place where we can get away with being less than an upstanding citizen.

From what has been said in this thread and perhaps an extent elsewhere, this wouldn't be a huge change to lore or landscape. It will be a simple run down gathering of buildings. Perhaps town is too strong a word for it. Regardless of what word that is chosen to label this place, it is no major change to anything that is already going on. To put it in reality, history has had thousands if not millions of settlements created and destroyed within human existence, yet the books we read and lessons we learn don't ever tell us of them. This is the Warcraft equivalent.

Drama in this area can be easily lessened with commonsense, a skill we here are all familiar with. As stated before this post, if one don't want to be in an area with higher risk of harm than in another place, one should reevaluate RPing here. It may look as if every conflict will end in death on paper, but I can almost certainly guarantee that things will pan out differently once set in motion. Furthermore, I think it needs to be stressed that there should be an equal chance of harm to both parties involved. If two players go at it in a knife fight, both of them have precisely the same exact chance of getting cut as the other. However that can be countered with numbers, but only fools will go into a fight (Or not back down from one) if they are clearly outnumbered.

I'm strongly for this idea, and would love to see it come to fruition. Change isn't a bad thing, everything needs to evolve to keep going. To me, this is a glimpse into evolution of the server, if not RP as a whole, where a greater amount of knowledge is necessary to adapt and eventually thrive.

^This

BountyHunter Wrote:Personally, I believe this idea would be very good. The only thing which really worries me and makes me not really want to go to the town is the fact you're wishing to force character warnings onto people just for setting foot in it. That's the part which really does annoy me. Someone could simply give someone a drink, be all friendly like and then tell them after they take a sip 'Oh, it was laced with poison, you'll die in an hour'. There is nothing stopping someone from doing that, nothing at all.

Well you do have to give a character warning before the poison thing. I just feel like the only places where you should have a character warning just for being there is the places opposite of your faction, or the places of extreme danger that are like guarded by dragons and such. But then again that's more rooted in the game and us acknowledging part of the game.

I feel that even IF there would be a constant char warning, I'm pretty confident that most, if not all, of us will still say before, or during a fight "You do know that unless you run and I win, I am gonna kill you? Right?" I actually think that most of us will out of pure courtesy.

A lot of people are saying 'Well, we're all nice people, we wont abuse this X' here. And that's great, it's lovely there's so much trust in this community. Fantastic, even! Buuut that's not why rules are there. These rules are in place to stop the people who aren't so nice, who would abuse this stuff, from doing so. That's the entire reason the rules exist. 'Cuase these people are out there.

Wuvvums Wrote:

BountyHunter Wrote:Personally, I believe this idea would be very good. The only thing which really worries me and makes me not really want to go to the town is the fact you're wishing to force character warnings onto people just for setting foot in it. That's the part which really does annoy me. Someone could simply give someone a drink, be all friendly like and then tell them after they take a sip 'Oh, it was laced with poison, you'll die in an hour'. There is nothing stopping someone from doing that, nothing at all.

Well you do have to give a character warning before the poison thing. I just feel like the only places where you should have a character warning just for being there is the places opposite of your faction, or the places of extreme danger that are like guarded by dragons and such. But then again that's more rooted in the game and us acknowledging part of the game.

I'm not sure you do, if there's a constant character warning. No one's said anythign about 'The town has a constant character warning, and if you go here you're in danger, but you still have to give character warnings if you do X!'

I'm sorry if I came off that I was sounding derogatory, I just think that it would be great for just one part of the world to have the choice to have a rp environment where there is danger if we want it. It frustrates me in a world like wow that there isn't more danger, and that if I want anything bad to happen in a war torn world I have to arrange it beforehand, make my way to some undisclosed location where people can't see, get in trouble, then carry on, It leaves any kind of dangerous situation feeling kinda flat if you have to meticulously plan it beforehand. Maybe ive played too much final fantasy, and have grown to love the randomness of random encounters

And yes, Bountyhunter, I agree, there isn't anything stopping someone doing that. But neither is there in real life. Except for common sense, morality, the fact that the majority of people won't simply kill a stranger for no disclosed reason, and if you know they do have a motive, don't accept a drink off them in a place where you know murders happen. And the fact that the poisoner would likely be stabbed in the gut by the poisoned man, or the poisoned man's friend, as he likely wouldn't travel alone to a place like this. Basically, they would still need a motive. If they have a motive, you know not to trust them. If your character does trust to take a drink off an enemy, then they are a fool, which can still make for fun RP. Death is a good part of RP after all, many of my favourite RP moments have come when my characters have died. If an enemy with a motive has got an ally to try and bump off your character, then that's just how it is, that's what happens when you make enemies in a town of this kind. You can only hope that one of the allies you brought along can cure you, or at worst, avenge you.

Honestly, I believe if everyone in the town was aware of the rule, then the only reason a GM should ever have to be involved is if someone is playing a lone psychopath, or a senseless killer. Just cause you can kill here, doesn't mean you should. If your a thief for example, where is the sense in killing your victim? He can't exactly run to tell a guard, no-one is really gonna care if you got robbed, and you can always just rob them again next chance they get, and hope this time they diddnt stash a knife in their pocket instead of gold. They are no good for you dead :P

I knew when I made this that not everyone would like the idea. But there are many forms of RP on the server, and We can pick and choose to participate in the ones we like. I just wanted to give the people who wanted an option like this the ability to do it, or find out if there were others like me interested in the idea

Again, apologies if I offended you, or anyone else with my phrasing Wuvvums.