Conquest of the Horde

ThePharaoh Wrote:I think character warnings should be forced. Because that's the whole point. If you want to go to a rough area without a forced char warning go to Ratchet or Booty bay. This is for strictly outlaw, grungy town. Even for developed chars they would know "hmm. maybe this isn't the best idea to be here. Because people die...a lot." I think it should be a enter at your own risk period. IF you get killed, that's how you went out. If it's a tear jerker death just rez that boy or girl.

I like the idea, I thought a similar idea was proposed but shot down by the staff. I'm glad to see this starting to take motion. Also this can lead to hostile yet non death RP like good ol' fashioned bar fights, muggings and things like that. People don't have to die. I say an ass whopping is a guarantee though. Just don't complain about being jumped, gangs/clicks or rude IC people and this should open up a well needed avenue on an already versatile server. Just my opinion though.

This. I have to say that in this thread, ThePharao is full of win. You put your character under this risk, and YOU have to stand by it. If you're good, you can get through a town like this without a scratch. Don't pick a fight. Do not insult people. Stay out of alleys. If somebody is drunk and picking a ifght, buy him another drink, yes that works, trust me.

If this does happen, Character Warnings should indeed be forced. But I think you should still give someone a warning prior to outright attacking them.

I'm just not pushed on the idea of people being spontaneously attacked with no OOC warning. This just sounds like an excuse for people to get out their killing characters and...you know. Kill people without warning.

EDIT: To me, this is starting to sound more like a RPPVP area than some lawless area, what, with killing people out of the blue and what not.

Character Warnings should still be given, though they need not really be 'accepted' here. Just tell people in advance you're about to kill their character, and it should be cool.

Wuvvums Wrote:On another note something crossed my mind, and that is how guilds are not allowed to claim places as their own bases for rp. A lawless town would pretty much allow for that; one big guild could control it and say it's their town to own and you must abide by their business.

While this COULD make IC sense, don't you think it'd be a little unfair in the server to have one guild get to own a place while others could not because they have more muscle and members? I think there could be a lot of abuses in that aspect, and I think we should ask the question if players should be allowed to "own" an area that is customized. I know I wouldn't want to build a town or area just so someone could take it over and dominate the rp there.

Wuvvums Wrote:But what if there are more guildies, or at least more of a clique, than the inhabitants? Would it be fair for the GMs to customize an area for rp on the server, only to have that restricted down because others have the ability to take it over and own the place? I'm just asking this as an OOC question.

GMs normally don't customize a place for guilds to be fair to other guilds. Because of this, the "lawless town" could be an exploit where a guild gets to seize a customized area. I think to some extent there should be an OOC rule that you can't "own" the place, mostly because of that in mind.

ManDudely Wrote:They'd have no true authority there other than having more muscle than you on your own. They also would not have members there to police 24/7, and if nobody else likes it, get a gang of people together and kick 'em out. Go cross-guild if you don't have enough friends. Somebody trying to take over and enforce their will would, I think, be inevitable in such a place, but it's not exactly a hard situation to fix when problems are solved by the sword.

If it happens that a guild arises to take control of the area, I'd be in full support of that RP. Let them try, play it out. In a lawless area, it will be very messy unless you -vastly- outnumber the opposition, and even then there will be conflicts unless they can convince the entire inhabiting population to support them. They will not be able to enforce their ownership 24/7. The oppressed can call in back up, rebellions can occur. If it happens, let it happen and deal with it. I'm sure as soon as one guild tries it, another will rise up to challenge it, and maybe more. Those guilds will eventually splinter off or be destroyed/chased out/whatever. It'll be like a scaled down version of the world, all concentrated in one town with different warring factions.

It would not make any sense from an IC standpoint to try and prevent anyone taking control through OOC rules.

As for character warnings... I dislike the idea of anywhere being 'you agree that upon entry you are acknowledging a character warning that may be rendered by anybody at anytime'. If you want such senseless PKing, play a PvP server on retail. You have the character warning system here for a reason, as a courtesy to players to ensure they consent to entering into a situation that will specifically put their, and your own, character at risk of death or serious injury. If they do not consent to entering into such a situation, they have the option to get the hell out of there with ther character intact, for now.

If people are going to be throwing around character warnings frequently, that player will sooner or later have to partake, or they may aswell not play there, but at least they have the -choice-.

Oh, I know they're not questions, only most people do have the courtesy to say something like, "if you don't agree to this warning you can opt out of the RP", because I like to think not many people or their characters have the kind of bloodlust to lock a person into a RP they really don't want to play out... I mean sometimes characters have to die, but as Kret said Drama is rife in those situations.

And that is fine, more or less.

To anyone disagreeing with the forced warning of it, it's not as though you'll be missing out. The GMs aren't going to turn Ratchet or some other hotspot into this area, and you wouldn't want to RP with people who'd normally give you a CW anyway if you don't want your character to die, so there isn't really any reason other than tradition not to do this.

Also if a guild has the influence and power to take over the area, eh. It was done ICly, so it'll stay IC. More power to 'em.

I would personally love more deserty area for the western feel. Frontier town in middle of nowhere. Only law is a single easily bribable sherif that doenst really care if the town scum kill eachother, basicly just puts up wanted posters on peoples heads whenever someone robs the local bank.

Anyway... Love the idea, depending how it's pulled through will either resuilt in total disaster or many many happy times. I would probably wait though untill Cataclysm comes out. Sience when it comes the world will be full of disaster, many ample opportunites for lawless society to pop up in middle of nowhere. Full of war veterans come to make money in frontier bounty hunting, ending up doing illegal smuggling and banditry instead.

I still don't like the idea of going through the effort to make a customized area just so a clique of characters can take it over. While you say it may be interesting to do IC and that it'd be impossible to maintain, I just doesn't sit well on me of the idea of having a place made that people can take and horde for themselves if they get enough buddies to help.

:/

I'd also like a desert area. .. For that Mos Eisley feel. Also, I think we should trial this at first, see how it works out. I think it's goten enough interest to at least be trialed. And don't wait for Cata. It's coming in December in retail and probably MONTHS later for Trinitycore. Interest WILL die.

Poll pl0x... :3

I think that for a zone like this there needs to be some strong IC motivation to go there. Good guys probably would not go there unless they were looking for someone, likewise, its unlikely that an innocent person would just wander there for no reason at all. For victimizing other characters, ordinary populated towns are probably the best place to find 'em.

An idea might be to haunt an area that characters typically encounter, such as the path between booty bay and the arena - though thats not the best spot due to the gorillas .. but you get the point. Isolated spots like this are hard to find since there are portals and flight paths all over the place.

If setting up an isolated map for this then perhaps put a rare resource there so that there is some incentive to go there.

Just my two cents...

I added a poll to the main post. /nod

Wuvvums Wrote:I still don't like the idea of going through the effort to make a customized area just so a clique of characters can take it over. While you say it may be interesting to do IC and that it'd be impossible to maintain, I just doesn't sit well on me of the idea of having a place made that people can take and horde for themselves if they get enough buddies to help.

:/

But it won't ACTUALLY belong to anybody, it's just groups trying to claim ownership and force their will upon others, likely to extract money. You know, like real world goverments.

The customised area isn't going to be made for anyone in particular, it'll be for whoever in the community wants to play there, you just might have to contend with the sharks in the pool. No one group will hold supreme powerin the area forever.

Wuvvums Wrote:I still don't like the idea of going through the effort to make a customized area just so a clique of characters can take it over. While you say it may be interesting to do IC and that it'd be impossible to maintain, I just doesn't sit well on me of the idea of having a place made that people can take and horde for themselves if they get enough buddies to help.

:/

I don't think this is going to be a common thing. It would take a huge amount of willpower for an entire guild to put themselves at risk this way, knowing that some of their member's will likely be killed in the ensuing conflict. Though this in itself will remove a lot of the cotton wool surrounding the game at the moment, as to me, it seems utterly silly that, for example, for military guilds, some have never suffered a single casualty, or if they do have someone die, it's a huge dramatic event which often results in a resurrection post anyway. If a guild were committed enough, they might establish a foothold, but they would have to consider the consequences.

Only other issue with Guild control of areas is, "Great, event over, we got control of this area!" /logout

Now what's to stop people simply walking into the place, or even knowing that IC'ly, that area is technically controlled and populated? They wouldn't, and it would cause issues.

So I say, if guilds wanted to organise some kind of event from the town, make it, say, a hostage recovery, or a literal hit and run raid to try and disrupt the criminal network that will likely emerge. Not full scale conquest. Very few guilds would even have the resources to attempt a full scale hostile takeover of a small town, regardless.

Also, I love the ideas people are throwing out for it's design. Some people picture a backwater swamp shanty town kinda thing, some picturing an almost western kinda theme. In my head it almost looked like Tortuga from Pirates of the Caribbean Either way, id be very happy to see it come to life in any of the forms described, and I'm glad the idea seems to have the support of both the community, and a good few GM's.

An extra note, People don't need to worry, they would not be changing the SERVER to be like this, just one small area of the landscape. The whole world is run one way at the moment, and it won't stop RP happening elsewhere, just give those who wish to RP in an environment of this kind the opportunity to do so that they could not find elsewhere

Tortuga would be a nice way of putting the swamp theme, hehe. All the ideas cropping up is a fun sign that people would really like this to happen.

On the notion of senseless killing; I think we're thinking too drastically on this topic. I mean, how many senseless murderers have you seen running around lately? I think all of us here are more civilized and would want more out of our RP than just running around killing people, that's childish and not what we are. Each one of us have passed the trails that weed that kind of crowd out.

If, by some chance there is a murderer about, they'd at least have the common sense to know not to go on a killing spree in a lawless town, this is the one place that accepts them. But if they do go around killing numerous people the inhabitants would kill them on the spot. Not because they're "good" or do good things, but because they're looking out for their own skin and you're the closest threat. Thugs maybe misguided but they aren't blind. They'll kill a murderer to preserve their own lives, getting rid of an evil person is just a byproduct.

This is, after all, a town without rules. It's not an insane asylum.

I should at this point mention that killing in cold blood is actually very ill advised in the server's policies.

Hmm... regarding no Character Warnings and people escaping, they could always make a roll to run away as their first action. Perhaps with a bonus of +20 or something. So long as the person does nothing but try to escape, let them continue attempting to roll to escape? Once the person makes an attack roll, they'd be ineligible to try to run?

And as far as guilds 'taking control' of the area... I'm sure we can have a 'thuggish' group of NPCs traveling through get into a conflict with them. And while the NPCs may lose (say, if they're a smaller group), at least they'd do some damage to the guild if a fight ends up happening. If the same guild attempts to maintain control for a while, more and more NPCs could 'travel through,' say, as a sort of balancing mechanic. So, either people in the guild will eventually die, or they'll get tired of it and relinquish 'control.'