Conquest of the Horde

Danalthar Wrote:*demands group hug*

To start off, this. More hugs, more focussing on the positive instead of the negative as also asked in A plea for positivity!.

Quote:From the bottom of my heart, thank you all for taking the time out of you day to do such a thankless job.

That also deserves to be stated, now for the rest of the.. 5 pages! I think this thread has had a incredible growth in my afk-time, curse thou real life, I totally wanted to discuss more and sooner.

Quote:What if we let certain players be able to approve profiles? Like, a forum GM without any commands in game? They could have their own method of approving profiles, such as having at least 3 of the "GM's" give the thumbs up for it. Of course, we don't have to have these new forum GM's, and just allow the Grunts to do this. Just some food for thought.

No go on this, players will purely thumb up the profiles when asked by fellow guildies or friends. Increases the rate of favouritism, and truly makes it a "Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." community. Or so I fear. I say GMs need some basic outline of say, a profile a day at minimum. Perhaps even one every two days, though I also send Kretol that earlier and am basically repeating myself.

Quote:DEA: We have two separate teams of GMs that switch off, say, monthly. If we do this, it keeps the work stress for the GMs relatively small, whilst still getting stuff done.

Interesting thought, but that would mean either splitting up the current GM team of which many are inactive, or to create a new entire second GM team. Meaning, GMs will first have to find appropriate candidates and discuss them, but while time consuming it might be worth it. Yes I say GMs as I do not believe any player should have any say in who enters the team or not.

Quote:Also I get the impression there isn't a whole lot of organization going on backstage. I could be very wrong, but things feel disheveled at times.

That, I get as well. One GM seems to know a vital piece of lore information that another GM doesn't. Or there are simply disagreements. Perhaps to cut back on this, a FAQ could be thrown up with answers to questions that spread too much confusion and has been asked too many times. Preferably by Grakor or Kretol, so that answer is final.

Quote:but in general I think most of the time it's not the GM changing but rather a person's perception of their actions that change

I think these words are more true then many people realize, if someone suddenly holds a certain power and is standing above you in a sense, you respond and act differently. After all, that old friend could suddenly ban you, tell you to do things or who knows what. Your no longer on the same power level, which changes reaction. I mean, you act differently with colleagues then a boss. Or at least, I do.

Quote:ou guys need to grow some balls. I say this to Kretol and Loxxy all the time, but you guys let people walk all over you.

True, I ironically was thinking the same thing last night and even mentioned to Loxxy. I've seen amazing stuff here, stuff that I personally wouldn't let happen that much or that far. Then again, we all got borders but I get the feeling those of the GMs are walked over -way- too much.

Quote:Yes, I know we want a level playing field, but sometimes the designated villain needs to go super saiyan for the sake of the storyline. Same goes with the odd good guy. If everything is 'fair and balanced', then storylines will simply stagnate.

And another agreement, if every Lore figure was the same power-level as any other soldier in the army, nothing would have happened, at all. I believe even WC3 had captain units with slightly more HP and strength, to show they were superior to normal soldiers. There's nothing wrong with being stronger, to continue a awesome storyline.

Quote:and you'd have to be an -idiot- to ask teenagers for Brutal Honesty.

I truly do not believe the player-base is filled with teenagers. Not sure what else to say to that.

Quote:What we're missing is someone who has the charisma, vision, and will to lead something worth joining. If only that individual, should he exist, were to stand up and put his contrivance to use, all this other petty nonsense would disperse into the triviality it ultimately is.

...But such is idealistic rabble, I suppose, for I know people are trying out there.

Just... They're getting drowned out and getting stopped before they've started.

Indeed, there are too many things going on and too many voices to even hear one clearly through the masses. Too many guilds trying to achieve awesome things, too many ideas, too many suggestions and too much drama. Heck, if this was any other game I'd push the restart button and wash it all away. Start over, keep things small and awesome before gradually allowing more things and so keep a safe, peaceful drama free growth. Deal with things instantly, and not later.

Quote:But, honestly, if you want to change it, tackle it head-on. Don't sit behind fancy posts

To comment a bit on this, I do not believe even half of the server base reads those fancy epic and incredible of length posts. I know I avoid them, no matter how epic it may be, it's still too much to bother with. Perhaps things are -too- big, I had a dm event in a kobold mine the other day with.. 7 people I believe, and it was -awesome-.

Quote:We'd get sucker punched in the face if we tried to ally a character with the Legion.

Something to consider, perhaps we should start seeing GMs who have such characters more as lore figures. Now, I know you will go "WHAT" at that thought, but honestly. If we would admit they have earned their position, earned that power level and are trusted with it by the Admins.. Hell, I say we let them have those and get involved with our lesser pawns as much as we can. Maybe they'll grow in strength, maybe they achieve something awesome together with one of those lore chars, maybe they get heavily scarred or killed.. Heck, it'd be fun.

If I could have had the chance to play a moronic soldier who died in Stratholme fighting for Arthas? I'd still enjoy it, because he gave his life for something awesome. (Come on, admit a culling is awesome already.)

Quote:ll of us have different opinions on what the issue really is. We all have different slants. And no one wants to accept that someone else's view on the issue may be right. Worse than that, people spout out about these issues (myself included), when they don't have even the slightest idea on how to fix them.

True, I myself lack the ideas but am full of opinions.

Quote:The entire GM team has lost their touch. You all have been too nice too people who simply does not deserve it. I remember when I started here and you'd see a GM slap on his tag in chat and say "Show some respect" or "watch your language" and the person would go like "Oh, yeah. Sorry." Now, instead, they actually argue back. To me it just seems as GMs are to careful about not hurting players and be liked by them and, instead, the lose their respect. Sometimes, it's much better to be feared than it is to be loved.

This, though I wouldn't call it to be feared. It's better to be righteous then to be loved. People will dislike you for it, but people will also notice how things change due to stronger moderation. Eventually, you will gain the respect of some and lose the respect of some. You can not please both sides, which shapes and forms the community, perhaps causing departures of those who've actually influenced others in a bad way far too much. Now I'm not saying anyone is planting black seeds of drama here, but eh.. Be just, be fair, and you'll be respected.

Quote:o first up we'll be having open office hours on GMI where if a GM is open and willing, will sit there and take in any chatter/suggestions/rants/ramblings/ideas/ect

Great idea, just remember to enjoy the server as well however. It's not a job for you guys, and while I truly respect your desire to change and up the community's spirits, you (the GMs) do come here for RP as well. Don't forget to RP and enjoy the server.

Quote:Don't bottle your issues up.

True fact, it's bad for your health. Speak your mind, be honest, just use a little tact.

Quote:Can that be fixed? No, but we aren't professionals. We aren't trained to handle stress from customers, or brainstorm storylines or systems for games.

People need to realize that as well if they haven't already, you are a human just as the rest of us. If they want professionalism, go call blizzard's customer service. ^.~ ( Harr harr, a little lighten up joke!)

Quote:more than once have pondered, “I wonder what the team thinks of me”, but does it matter? I would rather spend my time roleplaying and holding my own events, improving the roleplay on the server instead of pondering such things.


I would suggest, balance yourselves. See lenience where it is useful and fun, improving for us all. And see your muscle show when needing to put out unruly flames. You need not be Hated, Feared, or Loved. Rather just have the respect as good GMs, and to show you understand and would support thoughts of the players. But also knowing when to snuff out the tones of inciting in-server fighting.
We are the population of a small server, we will either hang together or all hang separately.

Indeed, why do people value so much to the opinion of a person they will most likely never meet? I'll be honest, I'd be bummed out too if a GM found me a pain in the rear (If any do, please state so!), but heck.. In the end I come here for the RP, not the GMs. Don't take it the wrong way, but for me it holds no extra value if I roleplay with a GM instead of a player. It's still a human behind that monitor, behind that keyboard.

Quote:People don't move around for the simple reason that they can't think up an excuse. Not everyone, but I've had quite a few people tell me this. Also, be open to new things! How much effort does it take just to roll a disposable character to check out the unknown, or even have one ready on backup just to swap to, and head to that RP. I'm open to all kinds of RP because I have preset characters to traipse along with.

This, I remember the Nagrand RP which I believe you held. My character Jaide was involved, and it was damn good fun. But over chat, people stayed away due to not having a reason to go there. I gave.. 6 reasons I believe, all were shot down and eventually ignored. I mean, we players have to start opening ourselves up to new things and the unknown, not to hang around to the safely easy areas we've all seen a thousand times before. Nagrand, Northrend, and more regions are incredible. People just need to stop worrying about a reason to go there, and just go. That would lighten the server's mood up by far.

Now, to aim it back to the GMs, perhaps GM's can simply warp themselves and a group of players to these zones and get RP going. Pick a random letter generator, generate a letter and BAM, go there.

Quote:Building on this server is...agony. The time and effort needed to outfit an entire island would be quite long, on par with around a full week, if one wished to do it right.

We simply don't want to do spend the time on something that may just fizzle out in the end.

While it may be a agony, perhaps it's time to stop doing it at all then. Like Jurkey said, many places got decorated beautifully and now never get RP, while other places get tons of RP and truly have no visuals to work with.

I'm inclining much further towards that reset, wash every custom thing away apart from GMI and be done with it. Start clean, do not spawn anything and it will solve a lot of hassle.

Quote:On a more constructive note, maybe there should be some sort of... meet and greet again?

I'm going to say no, the main reason because I didn't go to the last meet & greet, was frankly because I expected -all- of this drama. I knew it was going to go about prestiges, server issues and I frankly didn't want to spend my time on it as I was actually having a awesome time RPing. Now I'm involved however, so perhaps I'm not that good at staying away from dramatic issues, but it was worth a try.

Also, regarding prestiges.. I'm going to toss out my honest opinion here. "Clear, them, all. Remove them, retcon everything, be done with it."

Why? Because it kills a hugely dramatic issue and we all go back to our senses with nobody feeling elite and more special then the other. That's just my opinion, and seeing the current mood swing I do not expect anyone to agree but it's food for thought for the GM's and players.

I also think this was my longest post, ever.

/cuddle.

Did that actually happen at the last one? You said you didn't attend for those reasons, but I'm assuming if it was moderated it wouldn't be so bad.

DiesUltime Wrote:

Wuvvums Wrote:

Danalthar Wrote:I think everyone needs to take a break. Make it unable to log in-game or on forum for a week, or something, then see the results. /sagenod.

Yes, let's just force the whole server down, there's no way that could be a disruption to anyone at all, now could it?

Not to mention with some people's schedules you may be knocking off their opportunity to rp when they actually get a chance.

That's -exactly- what I'm talking about, Wuvvums. I don't wanna get into a fight over this as I'm trying to be constructive here, but what'd happen if it was down for a while? Would it really be that bad?

By the way, I'm getting on vent in a second if you wish to talk a bit more.

Well, first off it'd be a kick to the people who are entirely uninvolved in the drama. I don't believe the entire server should face a penalty just because some people are hostile towards other people. Hostility and aggression are not fun to deal with, but forcing everyone to not participate on CotH is much worse. Any events happening within this hypothetical scenario would have to be put off for a week. If the forums were down too, how would you keep in touch with your other friends to plan roleplay?

And what about those who arrive infrequently because of a busy schedule. I know some people who have to juggle college, or have leave on the military, or get sick, or fall behind in school. For some of them they may have one week out of the month or few months to get some rp done, and closing down for a whole week, or even a day, would be a kick in the pants to them.

My responses may seem aggressive or may be aggressive, but I'm trying to be reasonable in explaining why something proposed is a bad idea.

DiesUltime Wrote:Did that actually happen at the last one? You said you didn't attend for those reasons, but I'm assuming if it was moderated it wouldn't be so bad.

I didn't attend it, but seeing this thread and many comments over chat / private complaints here and there I can only lead to be believed it was. I even checked up with a GM, and apparently someone I never knew was banned so for my tastes, that says enough. ^.~

It's alright. I feel the same way, I'm trying to give my opinion in a constructive manner. I just took offense because of the sarcasm, as I didn't really expect to be shrugged off.

The reason I came up with the idea was not to punish the people who are here often, but to have people who -are- quite active to realize that this is just a gaming website that has no weight or merit in real life at all.

As for a solution for those who want to see friends? Personally speaking, I have a lot of contacts on my AIM and MSN. I'm not saying this is the best move, as it will probably never be taken down for that long, but it's an extreme suggestion as to what seems to be a big problem here: A silly ammount of stress from everyone.

Psy: ...Ah. Someone was banned? Hrm.

Brutally honest? 'kay. Can do.

We take the internets way too fucking seriously.

You. Me. The players, the GM's. Everyone in this fucking server takes it way. Too. Seriously. Everyone is so obsessed with their image and how they're perceived by everyone else and what sort of 'position' they hold in the hierarchy. There are so many double standards, so many masks, so many differing persona's that leak out into cliques. Everyone trying to levy something against someone else. People trying to be GM's, people trying to rebel against the GM's. GM's obsessed with being "Cool" or being "orderly.". CoTH's Roman Senate is so dizzying I can't even stare at it for too long. I trekked it for a few years and...well, I can't really get back into it.

I could call out specific people or incidents or whatever else. But really, that wouldn't do anything but make everyone mad. And besides, I've been such a ghost lurker in this clubhouse for so long nobody would really give a damn about what I'd say.

Everyone. And I do mean everyone.

Stop.

Taking.

Everything.

So.

Seriously.



Just RP and don't worry about it. There's so much more to CoTH and RP and life in general. So stop getting upset at the players and the GM's and all the whacky things they do to each other.

That's all I can say, really.

Alright. I'm gonna go back to doing nothing now.

Oh ah, this I can do rather well I think. Just ask Nexi... So far I've been on CotH for about one and a half years. Actually we celebrate one year for the Draenic Pilgrimage this month! Things have changed with a renewal of the our Masters (read GM) aswell as the server itself, for the good and bad.

• Player behaviour and forum etiquette;

I remember coming onto CotH for the first time and I was afraid of the power of GMs and remember others being too. Today I ain't, but the power remains I've just come to understand the reason for the layout of things. But one thing that I must say I react upon is the lessening harshness. Back on my first character, Celeg, I remember seeing at least one ban a week and people NEVER seemed to go out of line on the forums like they do today. So please Game Masters, dare to be harsh and dare to punish people. (Including me when I rage!)

• Rein in the powerhungry;

The last few months I've seen, heard and met more and more outrageous characters that not only go against several of my percieved rules of character creation but also cross obvious lore. I think A LOT of the drama on the server these days comes down to people not being able to loose, be submissive or respect someone's creative outlet as a dungeon master. To solve this I would try to spot characters and the creators ideas that spin off an acceptable level of power, be it money/magic/skill/contacts/luck and "herd" us to a more equal basis. So please make a virtual foamsword fitting our forums and thump those who wish to roleplay demigods and whatnot without any effert what so ever to earn such power!

• Source of action;

I must first admit that I am not on the clear exactly what it is you GMs sign up for when you accept the role BUT I think and will probably always be of the oppinion that one of the Masters tasks is to promote and create roleplay at some level to some degree. Back in my first weeks I remember Cressy having her divalicious tailoring noble around Silvermoon, intergrating most of us into the "everyday" RP of city elves. I also took part in some of the events created for the trolls when retaking Echo Isles. Are there any things like this these days? I know of Argent Crusade but then my memory falls blank. Why not create the Ebon Blade, a Kirin Tor guild and maybe even a serverwide Sisters of Steel? And when they are around why not work on creating a smaller sustainable community around each instead of focusing on a series of events or a plot. I'd LOVE to see players getting a chance to represent existing forces, having somewhere to turn and someone to ask and these people being managed, or guided rather, but a person of more divine (read absolute) abilities. So please make two or three sustainable guilds or roleplay hubs/communities that might not fade after a month alone. Would not CotH be wonderful if there were players to turn to and interact against, instead of having to play both sides in a conversation or a drama alone?

• Non-passive helpfulness;

Like I mentioned above, the Draenic Pilgrimage have been going on for a year soon and during this time I have reached out to players and GMs that wish to pitch in to get a chance to take a more leading OOC role in the story. No real answer or interest. For some events I have even turned to the GM-team to gain mobs spawned, NPCs moved/removed/added and players teleported and not once have I gained replies or this help offered some time before planned event. (I have gotten help when pleading in /chat and bothering GMs by whisper, but usually late some time into the events or no help at all since those with powers were upheld elsewhere or not feeling up for it.) Ever since Nexi ascended I have been aided when she has been on, but at times I wish her not to since she is part of the playerbase I try to entertain. One event I held at Auchindoun ended in an unprovoked help from a game master which I did love, and is exactly what I'd love to see more of but through me. So please try to be more helpful and use us normal players and our creativity!



(The day I will have to choose, the GMs now will still overrival having none of you and your powers.)

So, I'm hoping I'm not the only one who's noticed something about this thread so far...

We have a significant number of people saying "The GMs are too lenient and too nice! They're push-overs!" and another significant number saying "The GMs change and aren't nice enough! They're all mean!" My point? Don't have one, really, I'm just deriving amusement from it.

I have to say thank you to Krent. That's exactly what I was getting at, and why I thought it'd be a great idea to take CoTH off the air for a bit. It's a game, folks!


And Grakor, your entertainment is warrented, heh. GMs are people too, and I think a lot of us forget that.

No one will ever be happy. There will always be something people complain about. It's just how it works. The problems to do with this server are so trivial. Some of us have better things to worry about.

Granted, there are some annoyances. But they're not worth everyone getting in a tizzy.

It depends on the GM and who we're talking about. Since we're being honest, I think you can be a little too strict sometimes, and I think Loxxy can be really lenient (with introductions I noticed). We can't really generalize.

Grakor456 Wrote:So, I'm hoping I'm not the only one who's noticed something about this thread so far...

We have a significant number of people saying "The GMs are too lenient and too nice! They're push-overs!" and another significant number saying "The GMs change and aren't nice enough! They're all mean!" My point? Don't have one, really, I'm just deriving amusement from it.

Not...really. I know I only said the change thing about Krilari. And a bit about leniency about Lox. Didn't really say anything about the other GMs. Though, if you wish me to...I <3 them. Nexi was definately a big help to me when I was off and pondering my presence on CotH.

c0rzilla Wrote:Not...really. I know I only said the change thing about Krilari. And a bit about leniency about Lox. Didn't really say anything about the other GMs. Though, if you wish me to...I <3 them. Nexi was definately a big help to me when I was off and pondering my presence on CotH.

I wasn't speaking specifically to your reply, just the general feel of the answers we've gotten so far, and their at times conflicting natures. You're not the only person that made a comment about how GMs act, after all.

Well, people have their own experiences with the GMs it seems, heh. And sure, some will agree, others will disagree. A lot of the tendencies I see are specific instances that I don't wish to go into too much detail with, however it can be said I've seen a lot of positive from the Gms too.