Conquest of the Horde

I see people are still having trouble being constructive.

If I see anyone else getting all pissy and being insulting in this thread, I'm going to start issuing forum suspensions. If you want to post just to throw bile around, save yourself some trouble and don't do it at all. Or, better yet, PM me it. I'll probably find it amusing, and at least I won't have to start beating people with a hammer and it won't be polluting this thread.

LostStranger Wrote:Not everything a man says is true, nor is there but one way to say something.

Best thing said in this thread so far.

I think we just need... some spontaneous events! You know would be a really nice change? Random events hosted by the GMs, or by players with GM help. Sometimes they can be a lot of work or hard to pull off, but they're usually awesome. I remember when I first joined the server, Brutal was hosting some random event and I joined it. I made a lot of friends that way *nod*. I remember it being cool because it was a player holding them, and the GMs were helping.

This topic was, originally, asking people to be 'brutally honest', yes. Please though, if you have good intentions in your posts: be careful. Preview your post before posting it up. Read it aloud and ask if it comes off as constructive or not. A lot of side-drama that is coming off of this thread can easily be avoided if we're 'brutally honest' about the relevant topic.

Generally: Please, let's not lose our heads while trying to solve a problem. :?

Erf I only said mean things because Brutal gave me this idea of "Hey let's just pelt our deepest emotions at things" but...you know the irony is Kril asked about the Gm team, not...the server

Alright. On the theme of constructive criticism. Trying to say something that is personal to myself, but may be some form of aid to anyone that may relate.

I have been on this is server for quite some time. I have been friends with many of the GMs both new and old. I have seen the ups and downs of all the teams we have had as our Game Master Team. And I have had my own ups and downs with them all.

I find both sadness and happiness when I see a friend of mine take up the GM mantle and I would note being a Gm is no easy task. We must think of it this way, why be loved or feared, when you can simply be respected.


I have had conversation after conversation with friends of mine in Ventrilo, where I have rambled on and on about my own grievances, my own dislikes. Despite the things I see as negatives of our GM Team, I also understand the issues with such a job.

Don't get me wrong, the thought of being a GM has crossed my mind more than once, the whole “If I were one” complex; many times. And I think of the difficulties of making the choices at hand.
And although I have made a list of things I bottle away, I remain with my respect towards my friends and perhaps close to foes (Yes you Clovis, Landron will burn you in unholy fire, for only I may wear the title of Amazing Cossack). But in all seriousness, I have been hurt by seeing friends becoming gamemasters for multiple reasons, and one here has been stated, PEOPLE CHANGE when they change standings, even if in the most minor of ways. I have seen such things, perhaps worsen with the happenings of real life on the friends of mine that have become GMs.

I have had arguments and disagreements with our GM team on multiple occasions, I like to think and make changes; examine what is possible. Dreamer so to speak. And on multiple occasions this has proven both a blessing and a curse when dealing with the GM team. I would say, at recent days, they seem more or less, “adamant on a policy of less lenience to certain ideas from players”.

A GM can add more power t their own guilds, as we saw with the White Sun, although full of GMs, when the Cabal gained more standing it seemed to attract NPC agents that we in the White Sun did not have.
So, being a GM has its privileges, but where it comes into player interaction is that, many people may not like being 1-Upped by GMs. It seems unfair to them I would believe, I myself have seen such things, but also know the power of being one that does what he can to attract roleplay.

I admit, I would wish for more freedom of my own to hold more events and have more glorious roleplay. But I may not have such things all the time as I please, despite my position as a grunt. I am a player on the server, and if I were a GM I am sure I would still have to think through my actions at least slightly.

I also recall times people have asked me, “Brutal, why are you not a GM”. And honestly I hardly ever respond, because although it would have bonuses, I am still trying to figure out what I am doing exactly on CotH. I would adore such power, but would hate it as well, I like my status as a grunt because I can still hold events. I can still contribute to the server without being a GM. I believe more than ever, the title of GM is over rated. The negatives many times out way the positives, and for us to constantly believe they are out to get us is a bad habit.

I more than once have pondered, “I wonder what the team thinks of me”, but does it matter? I would rather spend my time roleplaying and holding my own events, improving the roleplay on the server instead of pondering such things.


I would suggest, balance yourselves. See lenience where it is useful and fun, improving for us all. And see your muscle show when needing to put out unruly flames. You need not be Hated, Feared, or Loved. Rather just have the respect as good GMs, and to show you understand and would support thoughts of the players. But also knowing when to snuff out the tones of inciting in-server fighting.
We are the population of a small server, we will either hang together or all hang separately.

I wanted to add a point that was spawned by my wanting to respond to this post in the first place. But first, storytime so other's will hopefully understand my point.

I came to this game from another MMORPG, along with several other CoTHers (those people may already know where I'm headed with this XD). There was a -heavy- community fracture that made being in the environment generally unpleasant ingame and out. The older players who disliked what they saw wrote on it, some of the newer players came in and basically only saw the older players as complainers (lumping them all under the badge of 'disgruntled oldbie trolls'), and the GM team went on a very high defensive, most of all the head of the server. I won't go into much further detail because its pretty depressing to recall just how much it devolved. And at times, I see the potential for the same thing to happen here.

I say potential because of a few key things, which brings me to my point. When I was preparing to type this, I had that feeling again, like making a point would label me in that 'disgruntled player' category. There are various reasons for this, ranging from the larger frequency of ragequit posts to very angry exchanges on topics. I tell myself sometimes this feeling is sort of a product of the RP environment I was in before but I don't think that's the case. Rather, I do think that people tend to hold certain things within, not wanting to be labeled as 'the disgruntled'. This is further augmented when those who tend to make the most noise are the ones who call for greater strictness, and this isn't directed at anyone here in particular, as this is an issue in most environments that have settings. The desire to limit characters from a power and lore perspective, while sensible, leads players feel like their characters are limited in what they can be. While all this seems to be very random, the feeling of restriction that builds up from all angles eventually leads people to erupt.

So what can be done about it?

-This forum is a start. There is some tension and anger, but people are asking questions, getting answers, deliberating, and moving forward. We need more of this.

-Players and GMs: We as a community can work with each other rather than berate each other when we have ideas. When a player rolls a character, and something is wrong with him/her due to lore/etc, we can do a better job of finding out the player's intentions and coming up with a sensible way of continuing down that path. I do want to site a particular player here for good example, Bovel. Creating characters like Dibykali and Yvakara, he largely helped by pointing out certain lore issues, but at the same time coming up with suggestions on how my character concepts could work. I was at first defensive about change to the characters I had thought were 'flawless' in my eyes, but in the end, I ended up with what I wanted and with the proper and often more unique history to back it.

-GMs: I asked a question earlier about Prestige because to me, the use of prestige classes are more about character progression than powers granted. And I felt a couple of my characters have been stagnant as a result of being unable to take their next logical step. Binkleheimer touched upon a similar point about the server in general and it being harder to do huge events that may impact the lore. I partly agree with this because WoW lore does not account for the existance of our characters and the impact they may potentially make. Because there isn't a point of a powerful character of any strength if they cannot have the ability to make an impact. Which leads me to:

-Players and GMs: Both sides need to do better at creating and especially maintaining good stories and storylines. Most if not all of the server populace is guilty of this. I've seen many people upset when their guild ideas go south, without realizing that it is often not just their own issues that cause it, but because every protagonist needs an antagonist to play off of. Some guilds are best for inter-guild RP. Others are designed for more widespread and possibly lore-significant RP. We have to do better at recognizing these things and helping each other fulfill the most of what we want to accomplish. For anyone starting a guild (I've been in plenty of player and GM guilds that died), it is just as important to look for people to counter your guild as it is to recruit guild members, because you end up with a guild full of people with nothing to do. This will be the one point I get on Krilari for, and not the first time, because I love the Regiment so damn much that it almost hurts that its always hibernating like the bears we ride.

-GMs: Another Prestige point, but less about the system and more about handling the development of it or anything like it in the future. I was around for the end of the second to last system, at which point there was promised that the system would be fixed up and revitalized. That system came, and went in what felt like less than a month if not little more than that. The reason why people are so glued to the issue is that there is probably an ill feeling left from the last promised system supposing to be damn-near fullproof. Most would expect that if changes needed to be made it be more a tweak than a full takedown and reprocess. So my point is, with something so substantial, it is very easy to want to create a certain level of excitement for it, but be careful that if what you plan to offer does not deliver, you also face a very amplified fallout.

-Players and GMs: GMs...the profiles take what seems like forever sometimes to be sorted through. That part has already been addressed so no need to delve. Inevitably, if a player sees you engaged in GMI silliness, the natural thought is "he/she could have read X profiles/threads/etc in that time". This becomes more likely when things move slow, so its not to say you don't work hard at all, just a note that from the other side the slower things move the more that kinda stuff gets noticed. To the players....chill out. While GMs choose to assist and take on responsibilities, they deserve the right to turn into a box or do other lolzy things because they, like you, had work/school, and want to breathe a sec becfore they get down to biz. So give them a chance and if things are ridiculous, PM Kret or someone who can check it out and put boot in behind if it is necessary.

Despite its perceived corniness, I do want to end by saying there has been a lot of good times I've had here. Kretol is a good project leader from what I've seen, just needeing to be more involved RL permitting. The GMs are generally not that bad, and have off days like we do, but still come to CoTH and do what they can. GMs just have to remember that if they choose to GM, while you do deserve to be treated like a human, you know what you were getting into when you took the job. Make sure that it doesn't seem like you're a GM part time and a player with GM commands the rest of it. It's okay to do good things for players, but don't leave anyone out, even your harshest critics.

I leave you with the wisest words I know, that both players and GMs should always remember, which sums up the number one rule of the server better than 'respect'. In the words of Eek! The Cat:

Quote:"It never hurts to help!"

Oh, that's what this thread is about? Didn't I forget!

Seriously, though, I think the GMs are fine.

I agree, yes, with the statement that inactive GMs should be replaced with fresh ones.

Just having their seat on the staff gathering dust while they're away doesn't make much sense, mm?

Certainly, should they come back, and the only reason their names lost their pretty fluoresence is for their inactivity...

They could return to duty immediately. Unless they don't want to, which is all good.

Still, such a recycling effort might not actually work in practice given how few people are faculty-fit.

...

Now, I will comment on Brutal's post, which was submitted in the time I was writing my own.

Just touching on the parts that truly sing to me...

If the good Brutalskars is a dreamer, I am an artist. I see the world as both how it is and how it could be.

Additionally, my guild... the White Sun... We do have a lot of GMs. They make up the core of my troupe.

...Why?

Because they're my friends, most of them long before they were even considered worthy of CotH's virtual volunteer firefighter team.

It doesn't matter to me that they've chosen to take on more responsibilities to our playground of choice.

I admire their efforts, I don't envy their burdens, and it hardly effects our relationships.

I don't ask for any special favors, either, because I don't need them.

Sure, as a player, I've run fun events with GM aid, and I appreciate it always...

...But it's not like their gracious ornaments of models and game objects make or break my little games.

There are alternatives, and in that ancient time before there even was a Warcraft...


Don't need to be a GM to help with profiles, don't need to be a GM to lead your fellow players...

...Don't need to be a GM to make things happen.

Really, all you need is a bit of faith, a spot of courage, and a fistful of miracles.

tl;dr?

To summarize.

My opinion on the fact that my friends list has disappeared overnight three times now?

Yeah, whatever, don't care, s'fine, good for them, suck to be them.


My opinion on GMs and how I think they could improve?

Shmaw, the suits ain' scrapin' no skin off mah' back.

Mebbe' they made a few booboos here n' there, but they all mean well, an' none of them 're 'xactly incompetent, yeh?


...I just realized I forgot what I was babbling about.

Let's hope some sagacity is buried in this prattle, mm?


POSTSCRIPT

I don't know how I could possibly tell the staff how to do their jobs because I've never tried doing it myself.

As a player... I've... heard some things, but never suffered a lick of malice from the Gamemasters.

The stringency of the multiclassing rule has irritated me, but that is neither here nor there.

...

Hell in a handbasket, now I read Jonoth's.

I pity you administrators, poring through these thousands upon thousands of pixelated characters.

I'm going to stop tirading on with the full foolishness of sleep deprivation while I still can.

Sleep soundly, reader, wherever you may find it.

Brutal honesty? Here I go.

I love you all, not only the GMs but the players too. I admire the GMs for what they do, their responsibility and each and every one of them do good for this sever. The honest truth is I want to have this responsibility too and I aim for that every day of the year and do my best to prove I am worthy of that. To me, this is a difficult task and I envy each and every one who has gained this position because of how much they must have done for the server to obtain this.

What the GMs do is hard work, there is no doubt in that, what they do is great. Flaws? Yes. Improvement? Yes. I have nothing to say on the flaw or improvement side of things as much has already been said within this topic and I do agree mostly with it, to an extent.

Quote:Stuffs by BountyHunter.

Brutal Honesty can be positive too!

Dun dun dunnnn...my turn. Put the hammers down, I'm being civil.

I think the GMs are doing a great job, tbh. The whole previous prestige system thing, that was nearly perfect. The only problem being that prolly all profiles for it needed to be checked over by the GMs, despite whatever wait there may be. Just to police it, y'know? Moving quite swiftly on from that to potential areas for improvement...well, I don't see too many. I would like to see GM character profiles on the board needing something like 5 GRUNT approvals before moving up. Keeping it fair and of the same standard, yush?

Moving more swiftly on, lest this drag: I think the problem is the overall player base. Not enough action, too much complaining. I'd like EVERYONE to keep one extremely important phrase IN MIND: KRETOL'S SIGNATURE.
People don't move around for the simple reason that they can't think up an excuse. Not everyone, but I've had quite a few people tell me this. Also, be open to new things! How much effort does it take just to roll a disposable character to check out the unknown, or even have one ready on backup just to swap to, and head to that RP. I'm open to all kinds of RP because I have preset characters to traipse along with.

I guess that's it, did you keep your hammers down? /wink

Thanks!

On the GM team: They need to be more open about ideas that are allowed. We make our own lore on this server as long as it is within the confines of the WoW universe. I think lore changing events could lead to some VERY interesting RP. Otherwise, I don't have a problem with the GM team. I think you are all nice people. As long as you all never become ban happy, then I won't ever become hostile towards you.

On Krilari: You, sir, need to wear more hats. Otherwise I'm not going to vote for you to be King.

...

I'd probably post something here. But it costs 65 cents a minute while I'm on the internet out here.

So... uh... I really have few complaints with the GM team to be honest. I'd get into it... but hey. Money is important to me. Shocking.

Only read up to the fourth page, so I can assume the rage has ended. Still. If you are still being all snippy.

/fingerwag

I was suprised to see how much I was able to accomplish with my character 'Seizael' in more than a year. The main reason why I went inactive for months was because I had two jobs, though the fact that a lot of people who had important influence in my character's life simply didn't import their character after the wipe, retconned a lot of their storylines/background or went completly inactive on the forum due to laziness or frustration.

If I had started crying about being left with almost nothing to push my character forward... eh... where would I be ? I have no idea, but I seriously missed RP a lot.

CotH is being supported by human GMs and human players. Mankind has been in war forever with himself, though we do not want that here. One cannot always agree on the same idea, but they can manage to accept/respect the way other thinks without trying to make them see like they do. We are cursed and we are gifted, full of flaws and qualities.

Seriously... if we cannot start living with eachother, what will become of this world !?

I never got any favors from GMs, I never got any bonuses for my character due to no matter the reason, I never got prestige, I never got more then one succesful character that has a little bit of sence... but I know what I got here: Friendly buddies and epic RP.

For me and myself, nothing can match what I've achieved since I joined over than a year ago. I used to be a pure "Frenchie" like MadFerret says so well... and well, now I am 'capable' of chatting on Vent with you people and have decent RP. Not only my grammar Improved but my RP got better.

Hey people ! We're all epic, but this community is too. If we fail to live with eachother, the community will lose it's only purpose:Fun.

Like many others said, I think that -everyone- should be more open to new ideas. I've seen people coming up with cool event ideas, which I believe would be great and I'm very ambitious to attend to - only to get shut down by other people, because there was a small mess-up in lore, or something like that. Like jak13 said, we are here for fun - who cares if someone's event might be a bit lore breaking?

Did the players have fun? Yes.
Did the dungeon master have fun? Yes.
Was the point of the thing fun? Yes.
Are we supposed to be close-minded and flame people with huge ideas? No.

This is basically not only for the GMs but for the players.

For the GMs: Like many other said, you are doing a great job and I can't imagine how tough it most be to have that job. Like someone said about Cabal/White Sun, I've seen it happen alot of times. Let's take an example:

I suggested Alcaz a month ago or so, and people RP'ed there for weeks, but the GMs didn't believe that it was active enough to actually decorate it - why? It doesn't hurt anybody to decorate a place, and -if- it get's decorated, it will lead to more interesting RP. Some people just said "Just use your imagination.", why should I only count for us then? The catacombs got decorated, the tower got decorated, anchorage, etc. I just feel like when it's something concerning GMs' characters, they are happy to help, and if it's some of their friends - sure, I'll help you with pimpin' the place. But when it isn't - they seem a bit more strict about it.

I just think that GMs should change their mindset a bit. Instead of "would this be realistic, is this the right thing, are the rest of the GM team gonna tie me to a pole and eat me for dinner?" they should be a bit more risk-taking. With risk-taking I just mean: "Is this place gonna be active for more than 2 months? Why not give it a shot? I'll decorate the shizzle out of this place, and if it won't work - bad luck." I love Kretol for this, that in my entire suggestion thread, he was one of the only people who weren't pessimistic about it.

For a general, I just think people should be more optimistic about stuff, because whenever I see a thread - I only see people post if they are going to flame the idea, if they like it? They just don't post. It's not the most motivating thing for a person who tries to start something "big".

Loosen up! It counts for everyone.

Building on this server is...agony. The time and effort needed to outfit an entire island would be quite long, on par with around a full week, if one wished to do it right.

We simply don't want to do spend the time on something that may just fizzle out in the end.

Were deviating though.