Conquest of the Horde

JackofBlades Wrote:I'm amazed this is still going, anyway, I thought Grakor and such were supposed to deal with complaints, especially ones about GM's. An archiving system has a huge "Chaos" target on it, but, that's just my opinion really.

Care to enlighten me with why? ^.~ I think if the players would only be able to read their own threads, the chaos would be rather limited. You might have looked from a viewpoint I haven't, but I felt like throwing the idea out as I've posted opinions more then ideas.

... It's not as though the GMs are evil, mean, snide, corrup-. Wait, scratch that last one.

Regardless, they're not bad people. Simply send one a PM that you have an issue with something they did, and I'm sure that GM will seek to improve the manner in which he or she conducts his or her work.

Really, it's not like they'll hang you if you disagree with them. Simply don't be such a rabble-rouser when it comes to speaking about an issue with a GM. Bring it up with them. This isn't the middle ages.

EDIT: They -do- deal with criticism. It's just... not so public. People make mistakes. And you don't lose GMship over a mistake.

EDIT2: As curious as we all are to our own threads, really, it's not like there's juicy gossip in there. It's just 'bla bla bla did something wrong'. And honestly, you most likely know everything you've done that's in that thread. Regardless. The subject of openjing up people's warning threads has been brought up pbefore, and others have given much better reasons as to why it should not happen.

1) I don't think it works like that, I'm not sure if the forums allow "Only you and that guy can read it" kinda stuff
2) It does kind of make people like Loxxy, who told me several time she'll listen to complaints, obsolete doesn't it?

I don't know, it just seems like more trouble then it's worth. But, like I said that's just me.

Yeah they can. Look how introductions are done.

Edit: However, if there was a way to make a complain anonymously, that might make it better. And sure, we could PM Kretol, as I'm sure happens, but this is an ease of access thing that also acknoledges that "Hey, there is a problem, we want solutions."

In a -way-, and no offense to the GMs as I think a lot of the team is pretty good, but it'd put some fire under the butts of people that may be taking advantage of the power. It's not a pretty method, but it at least shows -us- that we do have some say in what goes on here, eh? And that GMs aren't infallable here.

Quote:. Regardless. The subject of openjing up people's warning threads has been brought up pbefore, and others have given much better reasons as to why it should not happen.

Not sure if you mentioned me, but I never said about opening up the warning threads. That's something GMs need to keep to themselves, and it's perfectly logical they do. ^.~

Quote:Simply don't be such a rabble-rouser when it comes to speaking about an issue with a GM. Bring it up with them

Agreed, hence why this.. complaint archive thing I mentioned earlier might make it easier to just, speak one's mind. It may even add slightly to the professionalism although I am in no way saying that should be improved. I think there's enough of that already, and people are clearly showing their good will.

Quote:1) I don't think it works like that, I'm not sure if the forums allow "Only you and that guy can read it" kinda stuff

That would be a shame! I honestly don't know either, I know the guests without introductions aren't capable of reading threads, neither can you read your introduction till it's approved. It could be used in the same way, unable to read your thread in the forum till it's approved. (While keeping the limit to -not- read other people their threads.)

Quote:2) It does kind of make people like Loxxy, who told me several time she'll listen to complaints, obsolete doesn't it?

Not at all, it's more like a accessibility thing then something removing. GMs of any kind could see it, read it and reply to it, I wouldn't even dare to think about putting a system before Loxxy! /cower ( Love you dear. ) As I said, it's more of a archive for every complaint you want to make which you could use a answer to. It might add in keeping rage-posts away as well, as people could just throw them there.

Also, the GMs could with this archive, see how many complaints there are with each topic. If a topic raises many complaints, then it might be best to take a further look into it.

Quote:However, if there was a way to make a complain anonymously, that might make it better.

Perhaps this is something to consider adding with the threads, a anonymous check? Perhaps a way to anonymously PM the Admins or such could work as well.

I did actually start working on a form yesterday. It's not finished, but should be accessible from https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/conque...E6MQ#gid=0. Please don't submit anything yet, as I intend to add more.
I'm still pondering the usefulness of it, though. No 'harm' has come to any player that has come to Grak or me with any complaints about a GM or even one of us. Complete anonymity such as on that form is just asking for trolling.

Perhaps you could have access to the IPs? And I doubt being anonymous would help. It's a natural fear in our fibers to be scared of people with more power when confronting them, directly or indirectly.

EDIT: And to further reduce trolling, you could perhaps have three people have to agree on the same thing, or an SS if it was more private.

Kretol Wrote:I did actually start working on a form yesterday. It's not finished, but should be accessible from https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/conque...E6MQ#gid=0. Please don't submit anything yet, as I intend to add more.
I'm still pondering the usefulness of it, though. No 'harm' has come to any player that has come to Grak or me with any complaints about a GM or even one of us. Complete anonymity such as on that form is just asking for trolling.

Mwahaha! The current thing that just popped up in my head. Say, you totally know the email of someone you hold dear, add the username to that and you can send in a totally raging complaint that knives the player in the back! Friends betray people too!

.. I'm sorry, I drunk. Perhaps check IPs, or only allow this when your signed into CotH? Just a thought.

IP checkable <=> PMing Admins.

Just PM.

...

I see my name.

Anyway. I wanted to throw it out there that you can go anonymously through me as well. Quoting my GM title description from the CotH-Wiki:

CotHWiki Wrote:It is to the Counselor you should turn when you wish to speak "behind closed doors", [...]

... Or, in general, if you want to talk privately. My MSN is in my forum profile.

I'm amazed this has received 15 pages so far, obviously there's a lot that needs work.

Spiralin Wrote:I'm amazed this has received 15 pages so far, obviously there's a lot that needs work.

Or, it's a controversial issue which spawns ample discussion.

Ok, so problems with GMs. I come with the line of just TELLING them. Flat out. This is, after all, just a game that we all cherish with the same patriotic feeling as for our country [or in my case, city]. Nothing said here, will affect your life outside the game, except of course for the hours we put in here are not spent outside the game.

I can guarantee you will NOT get banned for complaining, even in a pretty rude manner. I have done so several times during more agitated or tired moments. [I appologise for those.] I am yet to ever be suspended/banned by any GM, and the closest I have ever come was due to a completely unrelated issue I won't go into.

So, what I'm really saying, is hang up yo' inhibitions with the GM team. They jus' be crazy foo's like you, boyo. Hell, most of them are more crazy if you ever did see that Ventrilo stuff...

*head smashes onto desk from tired-ness-ness.*

Sometimes people are stubborn, as it's human nature to be defesive when people are critical towards you. I honestly think that your own experience with the GMs has been more receptive than most, as what can be seen in this topic. Now there are obviously means they've provided to us that make it easier to chat with them, such as Kretol and Grakor providing anomnimity, and Loxxy's therapy corner. It's my opinion that noone is perfect, so sometimes issues arise that have to be addressed, and if there is an un-responsive attitude, then there is a problem.


To be blunt, look at some of the posts at the beginning of the topic. They weren't the most receptive to people's complaints, even though the GMs seemed to want people's opinions on what they thought of the GM team. They -had- to be going into this knowing that people were going to address personal and obvious issues, yet some of them came off with a "If it's not praise, don't speak" attitude.

I believe the GM team is doing a -great- job, actually. Making a topic like this is hard. They obviously are acknowledging there are problems. They are taking down their defenses, and allowing people to speak their minds. At first, it was like pulling a nasty band-aid, but it seems they are trying to be receptive, and that's what matters.

Sorry, but there is a problem, whether it's communication, or whatever. It's not as easy as just talking to a few people at any given time, but it's actually as easy as people recieving a bit of criticism and not saying "Shut up, it's not your place."

Just to note, my focus has been elsewhere for the past week, and will probably continue to be for the next few weeks. I have several papers I'll be working on, and have one due in a couple days as well. Next week I have two of them I need to do, and the following week I'll be going to Boston for a week for PAX-East! During which, I'll also have a paper due. -_-
So, just an FYI of my status.