02-21-2011, 10:09 PM
02-21-2011, 10:12 PM
Ahh, that's different then.
02-22-2011, 01:33 AM
DiesUltime Wrote:So in other words, GMs shouldn't be able to quietly moderate RP? For what reason?
Well, in the event of a private RP...it's creepy. Very, very creepy. It's one thing if they quietly monitor RP in someplace public, it's another if someone could be spying on me when I'm having a character do a heartfelt conversation about his feelings or something equally dramatic--something that was taken out of public areas deliberately.
Also, my My Little Pony ERP is a dark secret. Nobody must know of it.
"Oh, Nightmare Moon" sighed Rainbow Sparkly Sparkles. "Your magical pixie wings are so lovely!" Nightmare Moon affected a lecherous grin. "Indeed, Rainbow Pixie Sparkle Sparkles. Now come, let us take this magical carpet ride into the skies, where awaits Illidan and his evil lair, and we shall be the best of friends!"
02-22-2011, 04:14 AM
I'm going to throw out here that while I do not know if it's true, there has been frequently rumoured that GMs are laughing behind players their backs, for a case such as ERP or other things. Regarding vent, private channels they are on or through personal conversations.
This, will probably instigate at least a fear of dislike towards the GMs because their all rumoured to be people that talk about you behind your back on regular base. I'm not saying they are, as it is a rumour that's impossible to confirm, but it's a frequent one.
Just figured I'd throw it out here, I never worried about it myself as I expect GMs to confront me when I do something wrong or plain laughable, but I've had multiple times where players informed me about something that I should watch out for GMs.
Where do these rumours come from is what I'm asking? Have there been cases like this, if so, what can we as players do to change it, and what can the GMs as role models do to reassure us?
This, will probably instigate at least a fear of dislike towards the GMs because their all rumoured to be people that talk about you behind your back on regular base. I'm not saying they are, as it is a rumour that's impossible to confirm, but it's a frequent one.
Just figured I'd throw it out here, I never worried about it myself as I expect GMs to confront me when I do something wrong or plain laughable, but I've had multiple times where players informed me about something that I should watch out for GMs.
Where do these rumours come from is what I'm asking? Have there been cases like this, if so, what can we as players do to change it, and what can the GMs as role models do to reassure us?
02-22-2011, 04:18 AM
Honestly, that story really annoys me.
The fact that three GMs were there, is essentially saying, "Hey, look at this freak, come here!" Makes it much worse. You asked for honesty, there it is. That -really- annoys me.
Have some tact next time... /wink
The fact that three GMs were there, is essentially saying, "Hey, look at this freak, come here!" Makes it much worse. You asked for honesty, there it is. That -really- annoys me.
Have some tact next time... /wink
02-22-2011, 06:55 AM
To go off topic for the briefest of moments, the RP between Lene and Arlyn is very interesting, if only because it's damn near impossible to get near. The Crimson Templars seems neigh impossible to enter, and roleplaying with either of the two seems to be out of the question sometimes.
Regardless. I'll agree with the whole 'eavesdropping makes RP awkward' thing. All too many times have I switched RP to party chat because of eavesdroppers.
Perhaps people should consider informing others of the eavesdropping?
Regardless. I'll agree with the whole 'eavesdropping makes RP awkward' thing. All too many times have I switched RP to party chat because of eavesdroppers.
Perhaps people should consider informing others of the eavesdropping?
02-22-2011, 07:06 AM
While it is impossible to deny that topics people (Players and GMs) discuss on vent will never be based on another character, people honestly seem to be over-paranoid, in my opinion. I've been in a room with just other GMs with such scandalous conversations as...
Rigley: NO CLOVIS STOP STOP BURNING EVERYTHING
Clovis: I JUST WANT TO CREATE.
KRILARI: THE FOREST IS ON FIRE AGAIN.
I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attempting to brush that aside with humor, but basically in general half the time Vent is filled with silence, minecraft, or idle talk. At least the channels I listen to. Occasionally I'll sit there and tune everything out due to all the talking.
I'm not particularly knowledgeable to the event in question, but as it was said before I can vouch that topics on vent tend to be in good humor. Its also worth noting that sometimes a bit of a herd mentality becomes present, where someone will pipe up on chat 'Whats going on here?' and then you have other people popping over to them to ask the same thing.
Rigley: NO CLOVIS STOP STOP BURNING EVERYTHING
Clovis: I JUST WANT TO CREATE.
KRILARI: THE FOREST IS ON FIRE AGAIN.
I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attempting to brush that aside with humor, but basically in general half the time Vent is filled with silence, minecraft, or idle talk. At least the channels I listen to. Occasionally I'll sit there and tune everything out due to all the talking.
I'm not particularly knowledgeable to the event in question, but as it was said before I can vouch that topics on vent tend to be in good humor. Its also worth noting that sometimes a bit of a herd mentality becomes present, where someone will pipe up on chat 'Whats going on here?' and then you have other people popping over to them to ask the same thing.
02-22-2011, 07:12 AM
Etmosril(However that name is spelled), I really admire you for writing this. Because personally, I've been talking to a person on vent who told me how players got kinda privately contacted by the GMs, for saying their opinions about the server. And by opinions, I mean saying what they believed were bad. I'm not going to say -who- the person I was talking to about it was, because of obvious reasons, but I got pissed when I heard that. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but if you can't say whatever you want or share your opinions - what's the point of having a forum then? My point is that I've been kinda... scared to make drama because of GMs, because basically - I've found that -some- GMs, just begin to flame you if you do so.
Spying on you OOCly, is not cool - and I don't think it's "monitoring" RP to spy on someone and mock them on vent. There's no way to justify that, and if it had happened to me - I would have reported them all right away, and did everything that I could to get them banned and demoted. Heck, I'd even ignore them and avoid all contact with them.
But that might be me overdramatizing.
@Rigley & Grakor: I don't really think that saying that is going to justify what happened. "Good humor" doesn't involve bullying people who aren't even aware of it. You can't talk behind someone's back, in "good humor".
Spying on you OOCly, is not cool - and I don't think it's "monitoring" RP to spy on someone and mock them on vent. There's no way to justify that, and if it had happened to me - I would have reported them all right away, and did everything that I could to get them banned and demoted. Heck, I'd even ignore them and avoid all contact with them.
But that might be me overdramatizing.
@Rigley & Grakor: I don't really think that saying that is going to justify what happened. "Good humor" doesn't involve bullying people who aren't even aware of it. You can't talk behind someone's back, in "good humor".
02-22-2011, 07:25 AM
Do you want me to be brutally honest?
Honestly?
Spoilered for language, so you know it's gonna be a fun time.
Honestly?
Spoilered for language, so you know it's gonna be a fun time.
Spoiler:
I've made fun of people behind their backs, as a -player.- It's how I keep myself from getting -pissed off about stupid shit.-
I know people have done it to me, too. I just -don't give a shit about what you people think of me.-
Are you really saying you've never thought something was peculiar about an RP and commented on it to a friend? Are you -honestly- telling me that you've never tried to diffuse the peculiarity of an RP session by picking at it to a friend who'll understand?
Humor is better than getting angry, so honestly, -why do we care?- Why are we so centered on what people think of our RP sessions - even the GM's? Kretol has the final say in everything, and if you -honestly- feel like someone's abusing their power to do you wrong, you can tell Kretol about it, candidly. He can deal with it with a lot less bias than people may want to think.
Maybe - just -maybe- this rant doesn't apply to the situation mentioned. At any rate, I don't care. It needed to be said, because people are touchy about this subject, anyways.
I don't know, maybe I'm just starting to sound like a cynical b***h, but honestly. Maybe everyone needs to grow up, just a little bit? People who pick on things, people who are too sensitive to what people they don't know/care about think - All of us. I mean, jeez. If you have to, think about it this way: "Be who you are. Those who matter don't care, and those who care don't matter."
Just -stop thinking you need everyone's approval to have a fun time on this server.- It's not going to happen.
Honestly, the more I'm hearing these arguments, the more I feel a couple of recommendations that were made before stand quite strong:
It's just a game. We're taking it too seriously.
Let's turn the game off for a half a week, or something. We're getting too edgy.
Love ya,
Esth <3
I know people have done it to me, too. I just -don't give a shit about what you people think of me.-
Are you really saying you've never thought something was peculiar about an RP and commented on it to a friend? Are you -honestly- telling me that you've never tried to diffuse the peculiarity of an RP session by picking at it to a friend who'll understand?
Humor is better than getting angry, so honestly, -why do we care?- Why are we so centered on what people think of our RP sessions - even the GM's? Kretol has the final say in everything, and if you -honestly- feel like someone's abusing their power to do you wrong, you can tell Kretol about it, candidly. He can deal with it with a lot less bias than people may want to think.
Maybe - just -maybe- this rant doesn't apply to the situation mentioned. At any rate, I don't care. It needed to be said, because people are touchy about this subject, anyways.
I don't know, maybe I'm just starting to sound like a cynical b***h, but honestly. Maybe everyone needs to grow up, just a little bit? People who pick on things, people who are too sensitive to what people they don't know/care about think - All of us. I mean, jeez. If you have to, think about it this way: "Be who you are. Those who matter don't care, and those who care don't matter."
Just -stop thinking you need everyone's approval to have a fun time on this server.- It's not going to happen.
Honestly, the more I'm hearing these arguments, the more I feel a couple of recommendations that were made before stand quite strong:
It's just a game. We're taking it too seriously.
Let's turn the game off for a half a week, or something. We're getting too edgy.
Love ya,
Esth <3
02-22-2011, 07:32 AM
I wasn't exactly saying good humor pardons it, and I believe Grakor made mention of that as well. My point is that it wasn't with any malicious intent.
02-22-2011, 07:49 AM
/tosses a bag of chips into the mix before walking in.
Yes. A bag of chips. Do you have something against them?
Right. Now that everyone is nomming on their favorite Lay's(If that wasn't blatant, I don't know what is.), I'd like to address a few things...
I wanted to say that I appreciate the people that can treat the issue in a grown-up manner.
@Xigo. There is such a thing as Private RP. More than once, we've been requested not to butt into other people's roleplay, because it was private. At times, GMs have been present to enforce this. As we respect the rules, we wish to be respected in turn. Mutual respect is what the server is based upon.
It is the Number One rule, after all.
Moving on. I could understand what Grakor said, if somehow the GMs were exhempt from following Server Rules.
And I shall give a Real Life example: You(Player) and the Police(GMs). You are able to be in your home(Private RP) unrestricted. Anyone that is not you must legally ask permission to be in your home, in order to be there. You accept one other person.
Thus, you and the other person do quiet, but wacky things(RP), not breaking any laws inside your home. For instance, you dismantle TVs to see what's inside, and work on researching cutting-edge electronics based off formulae gained from mushroom fibre.(Have a costume party)
Then the Police come knocking. Knock-Knock-Knock. You open the door, and step outside of your home to talk to them. They cannot enter your home without your permission or a Warrant. You are to be presented with the Warrant before they enter your home, thereby letting you know that they have the legal right to do so. Why? Because they are subject to the same laws that you are. They cannot break into your home any more than you can break into another Person's. (In an ideal world)
Similarly, a Player that wishes to observe another's RP is allowed to ask permission to do so. If that permission is granted, they may watch. If not... Well, they've still got other people to spy on if they wanted to. (Once more, how things should be treated.)
Why would the GMs be exhempt from this? Even in Real Life, you at least let a person know that you have a Warrant and present the thing to them, before entering their home and seeing their most private of places. (Spying on someone without telling them. Much less asking for permission.)
And then you lie to them, telling them something to the lines of... 'Eh, it was a mistake. We got a tip about someone holding a drug den in here, and that's why we kicked down the door and barged in, rummaging through your stuff and watching you eat.
Oh, you had a weak heart and had a cardiac arrest when we broke into your home? Too bad.' (Lost the will to RP. Especially whilst being spied on by people who won't reveal their motives.)
And after leaving, at the Precinct: 'So, did you see that chick's place, man?'
'Yeah, totally. She had her unmentionables strewn all over the place.'
And the Police proceed to laugh.
That is not proper conduct. For anyone. In Real Life, or in a virtual world.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
(Who watches the watchers?)
So, yeah. /pitches cookies at people. Eat your fill. Cookies are food for thought.
Yes. A bag of chips. Do you have something against them?
Right. Now that everyone is nomming on their favorite Lay's(If that wasn't blatant, I don't know what is.), I'd like to address a few things...
I wanted to say that I appreciate the people that can treat the issue in a grown-up manner.
@Xigo. There is such a thing as Private RP. More than once, we've been requested not to butt into other people's roleplay, because it was private. At times, GMs have been present to enforce this. As we respect the rules, we wish to be respected in turn. Mutual respect is what the server is based upon.
It is the Number One rule, after all.
Moving on. I could understand what Grakor said, if somehow the GMs were exhempt from following Server Rules.
And I shall give a Real Life example: You(Player) and the Police(GMs). You are able to be in your home(Private RP) unrestricted. Anyone that is not you must legally ask permission to be in your home, in order to be there. You accept one other person.
Thus, you and the other person do quiet, but wacky things(RP), not breaking any laws inside your home. For instance, you dismantle TVs to see what's inside, and work on researching cutting-edge electronics based off formulae gained from mushroom fibre.(Have a costume party)
Then the Police come knocking. Knock-Knock-Knock. You open the door, and step outside of your home to talk to them. They cannot enter your home without your permission or a Warrant. You are to be presented with the Warrant before they enter your home, thereby letting you know that they have the legal right to do so. Why? Because they are subject to the same laws that you are. They cannot break into your home any more than you can break into another Person's. (In an ideal world)
Similarly, a Player that wishes to observe another's RP is allowed to ask permission to do so. If that permission is granted, they may watch. If not... Well, they've still got other people to spy on if they wanted to. (Once more, how things should be treated.)
Why would the GMs be exhempt from this? Even in Real Life, you at least let a person know that you have a Warrant and present the thing to them, before entering their home and seeing their most private of places. (Spying on someone without telling them. Much less asking for permission.)
And then you lie to them, telling them something to the lines of... 'Eh, it was a mistake. We got a tip about someone holding a drug den in here, and that's why we kicked down the door and barged in, rummaging through your stuff and watching you eat.
Oh, you had a weak heart and had a cardiac arrest when we broke into your home? Too bad.' (Lost the will to RP. Especially whilst being spied on by people who won't reveal their motives.)
And after leaving, at the Precinct: 'So, did you see that chick's place, man?'
'Yeah, totally. She had her unmentionables strewn all over the place.'
And the Police proceed to laugh.
That is not proper conduct. For anyone. In Real Life, or in a virtual world.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
(Who watches the watchers?)
So, yeah. /pitches cookies at people. Eat your fill. Cookies are food for thought.
02-22-2011, 07:57 AM
^
This.
@Rigley: So, if I insult someone to make other peoples laugh, is it alright then? Hey, it wasn't mean't in a malicious intent!
It's the same thing, really. Seeing GMs do this really pisses me off. It's so ironic seeing GMs breaking the rules that they are spitting in the face of the players all the time.
This.
@Rigley: So, if I insult someone to make other peoples laugh, is it alright then? Hey, it wasn't mean't in a malicious intent!
It's the same thing, really. Seeing GMs do this really pisses me off. It's so ironic seeing GMs breaking the rules that they are spitting in the face of the players all the time.
02-22-2011, 08:08 AM
I would personally dispute this, since I have seen before that people will clearly act differently in the presence of a GM- Thus, being invisible allows us to see what they are really acting like, when an authority isn't hovering nearby.
Granted, that can be used for dishonest purposes as well.
In the end, I suppose I have to refer to what many have said in the past. If this is done, and you are unhappy with it, PM Kretol. He'll figure out the issue, I'm sure.
And there's a difference between insulting and what I described. I honestly don't like pulling this, but I'm going to say this from the perspective of a player, not a GM.
We all vent.
Esthrunil put it best. If you can honestly tell me you haven't poked at someone's RP, I will tell you you are lying. I don't mean 'OH GOD, THAT GUYS TERRIBLE. LOOK AT THAT. ITS FUNNY'. I mean 'Guys, this is weird, right?'
At any rate, I didn't claim to defend it. I've said already that that doesn't make it right. But it should at least ease tension to know that when it happens, the people involved aren't cackling about how stupid someone's work is.
Its also possible the people in question brought this up with full intention of being rude and such, and if so then obviously I'm not speaking about them.
Granted, that can be used for dishonest purposes as well.
In the end, I suppose I have to refer to what many have said in the past. If this is done, and you are unhappy with it, PM Kretol. He'll figure out the issue, I'm sure.
And there's a difference between insulting and what I described. I honestly don't like pulling this, but I'm going to say this from the perspective of a player, not a GM.
We all vent.
Esthrunil put it best. If you can honestly tell me you haven't poked at someone's RP, I will tell you you are lying. I don't mean 'OH GOD, THAT GUYS TERRIBLE. LOOK AT THAT. ITS FUNNY'. I mean 'Guys, this is weird, right?'
At any rate, I didn't claim to defend it. I've said already that that doesn't make it right. But it should at least ease tension to know that when it happens, the people involved aren't cackling about how stupid someone's work is.
Its also possible the people in question brought this up with full intention of being rude and such, and if so then obviously I'm not speaking about them.
02-22-2011, 08:33 AM
I pity the GMs.
They had apparently lost their individualism and became nothing more then ostensible slaves to the whims and pleasures of the player base.
They aren't players anymore, everything they do, every words they say, everytime they speak on vent, they are being scrutinized and observed, their words taken screenshots of or recorded down, because they are GMs.
I don't think any of them can even laugh anymore, because that might be interpreted negatively by someone.
No wonder some of them are inactive; why should they be active? Each time they log in is a chore for them, as they have to watch their words, their actions, their bearings because that awesome responsibility pressing down upon their shoulders and that GM tag hanging over their head.
Let me break this down for you.
You were doing explicit roleplay, or erotic roleplay, or private roleplay, or very closed roleplay, or cybering; I am just going to be blatantly honest because you are blatantly honest and you know the ancient phrase, "What thy do unto others. . ."
The GMs were doing nothing more then the duty bestowed upon them to watch and moderate the server, to do their job, to observe the happenings. They chanced upon this.
You were panicking, according to your own words. You were so blatantly honest about condemning the GMs are saying how utterly wronged you were, but you didn't even dare say what you were doing to the "T". This smells of guilt. This smells of shame. If you are guilty of something, if you are shameful of something, you know its either controversial or something that shouldn't see the light of day. You were panicking, I have no idea why, if you are so absolutely sure what you did was correct with the "i" dotted, why you were panicking. . .
Maybe it had something to do with the rise in tea prices in China. . .
The GMs have voices. They are individuals. They have thoughts, comments, and they have humor. They are not robots existing for the will of the server and the players. When they speak in vent, you can hear the tone in their voices, the humanity beneath their mask of law and order. So they speak, so they comment, so what?
If you were so absolutely open-board about everything, I doubt you would care.
As much as they shouldn't be doing what they do, which I have no idea what; being humans, maybe? Its curious, but its not like we ourselves don't make our own snide comments, as players, in general chat or the likes when hilarity ensues; e.g. Booty Bay.
My personal opinion is that there wasn't a right nor wrong in this situation, merely the lack of maturity. The lack of maturity in doing handling situations, handling people, and expressing your views in the right channels.
I see nothing more then a biased, one-sided post intended to push as much blame as possible to the GMs while hiding your own misdeeds, if misdeeds you truly thought they were, or maybe you were just afraid of being mocked. Words were emphasized, and it was not moderated, but pretty emotional. And the emotion was anger and vindication.
My personal definition of maturity is the exercise of wisdom in the application of relevant situations to obtain a result that would satisfy the most amount of people without being self-centered and placing either you or your close friends first. Maturity was not exercised here.
A few points,
I had never realized that the GMs weren't allowed by the rules of the server to do their job.
GMs are supposed to moderate the server, and so why would you think any tom, dick or harry have more rights then a GM in watching what you are doing?
Putting McKnighter in this awkward position is not a good way of showing your gratitude.
Putting forgive and forget in the same sentence as blatant honesty after the entirety and contents of your post isn't much of an alleviation of the situation.
I question the intelligence of this post in the first place, as you had effectively achieved what you just condemned the GMs for; spying on you. Now there really isn't a need to spy anymore. Everyone knows. I understand that you felt the need to say your views, but perhaps it is not exactly the best mean of doing so.
Having said all that, I do agree that the GMs doing thus is pretty demeaning to the players, who really don't need you sharing in their love. On the other hand, maybe they could do it in whispers or party.
Its a dilemma in my opinion; I don't envision the GMs being capable of doing their job by just /who and such, without actually understanding what is going on by observing the roleplay for awhile. And I don't envision the GMs of being so robotic as to not make a single snide comment or chuckle to themselves.
In finality, I say that the GMs are human, and this server isn't perfect because if it is then we can head to nirvana and stop living already; life isn't perfect, I am quite sure we heard of that somewhere before.
I don't really see anything wrong at all, whatsoever, save for the handling of the situation.
And the existence of the post in the first place. What do you truly intend to prove? What do you truly want? The GMs never to watch or observe ongoing roleplays again? Is that realistic considering their very existence in the first place? The GMs to be inhumane and robotic, immaculately cold and never laughing or expressing the slightest hint of human emotions and faults?
What do you want and what you hope to achieve?
Actions have consequences; have you thought carefully of the latter of your former? You are calling into question the integrity of the only form of policing that we have on the server, potentially sowing distrust and uncertainty amongst the player base in a time which is already a quagmire of confusion due to recent events.
Sometimes, we can only put our trust into someone or a group of someones with the hope that they would do some right amidst wrongs.
I will finish my ramblings with this.
The needs of the many overwrites the wants of the few. The GM team can only cater to the many, and I don't envision them being realistically able to cater to the wants of everybody in the server. They must make a choice; to observe roleplays and moderate them, or not to do so and take a reactive stance to happenings, acting only when a complaint had been made. Personally, I don't want to wait till I am stabbed or robbed before the police comes and save me. The GM team and the server policy as a whole have made a choice, so abide by it.
There is no point harming the fragile foundations of this server anymore than necessary, or causing a raging forest fire out of your own personal needs for unwarranted justice, or compromising everybody else for yourself.
There are GMs. And then there are players. I don't see why we are making GMs incapable of playing.
Are you committing some sort of martyrdom for love?
Thank you very much for your time and attention if you actually read through my ramblings. Have a joyous and merry 2011 and I wish you a great day!
Yours sincerely,
Zarquon
They had apparently lost their individualism and became nothing more then ostensible slaves to the whims and pleasures of the player base.
They aren't players anymore, everything they do, every words they say, everytime they speak on vent, they are being scrutinized and observed, their words taken screenshots of or recorded down, because they are GMs.
I don't think any of them can even laugh anymore, because that might be interpreted negatively by someone.
No wonder some of them are inactive; why should they be active? Each time they log in is a chore for them, as they have to watch their words, their actions, their bearings because that awesome responsibility pressing down upon their shoulders and that GM tag hanging over their head.
Let me break this down for you.
You were doing explicit roleplay, or erotic roleplay, or private roleplay, or very closed roleplay, or cybering; I am just going to be blatantly honest because you are blatantly honest and you know the ancient phrase, "What thy do unto others. . ."
The GMs were doing nothing more then the duty bestowed upon them to watch and moderate the server, to do their job, to observe the happenings. They chanced upon this.
You were panicking, according to your own words. You were so blatantly honest about condemning the GMs are saying how utterly wronged you were, but you didn't even dare say what you were doing to the "T". This smells of guilt. This smells of shame. If you are guilty of something, if you are shameful of something, you know its either controversial or something that shouldn't see the light of day. You were panicking, I have no idea why, if you are so absolutely sure what you did was correct with the "i" dotted, why you were panicking. . .
Maybe it had something to do with the rise in tea prices in China. . .
The GMs have voices. They are individuals. They have thoughts, comments, and they have humor. They are not robots existing for the will of the server and the players. When they speak in vent, you can hear the tone in their voices, the humanity beneath their mask of law and order. So they speak, so they comment, so what?
If you were so absolutely open-board about everything, I doubt you would care.
As much as they shouldn't be doing what they do, which I have no idea what; being humans, maybe? Its curious, but its not like we ourselves don't make our own snide comments, as players, in general chat or the likes when hilarity ensues; e.g. Booty Bay.
My personal opinion is that there wasn't a right nor wrong in this situation, merely the lack of maturity. The lack of maturity in doing handling situations, handling people, and expressing your views in the right channels.
I see nothing more then a biased, one-sided post intended to push as much blame as possible to the GMs while hiding your own misdeeds, if misdeeds you truly thought they were, or maybe you were just afraid of being mocked. Words were emphasized, and it was not moderated, but pretty emotional. And the emotion was anger and vindication.
My personal definition of maturity is the exercise of wisdom in the application of relevant situations to obtain a result that would satisfy the most amount of people without being self-centered and placing either you or your close friends first. Maturity was not exercised here.
A few points,
I had never realized that the GMs weren't allowed by the rules of the server to do their job.
GMs are supposed to moderate the server, and so why would you think any tom, dick or harry have more rights then a GM in watching what you are doing?
Putting McKnighter in this awkward position is not a good way of showing your gratitude.
Putting forgive and forget in the same sentence as blatant honesty after the entirety and contents of your post isn't much of an alleviation of the situation.
I question the intelligence of this post in the first place, as you had effectively achieved what you just condemned the GMs for; spying on you. Now there really isn't a need to spy anymore. Everyone knows. I understand that you felt the need to say your views, but perhaps it is not exactly the best mean of doing so.
Having said all that, I do agree that the GMs doing thus is pretty demeaning to the players, who really don't need you sharing in their love. On the other hand, maybe they could do it in whispers or party.
Its a dilemma in my opinion; I don't envision the GMs being capable of doing their job by just /who and such, without actually understanding what is going on by observing the roleplay for awhile. And I don't envision the GMs of being so robotic as to not make a single snide comment or chuckle to themselves.
In finality, I say that the GMs are human, and this server isn't perfect because if it is then we can head to nirvana and stop living already; life isn't perfect, I am quite sure we heard of that somewhere before.
I don't really see anything wrong at all, whatsoever, save for the handling of the situation.
And the existence of the post in the first place. What do you truly intend to prove? What do you truly want? The GMs never to watch or observe ongoing roleplays again? Is that realistic considering their very existence in the first place? The GMs to be inhumane and robotic, immaculately cold and never laughing or expressing the slightest hint of human emotions and faults?
What do you want and what you hope to achieve?
Actions have consequences; have you thought carefully of the latter of your former? You are calling into question the integrity of the only form of policing that we have on the server, potentially sowing distrust and uncertainty amongst the player base in a time which is already a quagmire of confusion due to recent events.
Sometimes, we can only put our trust into someone or a group of someones with the hope that they would do some right amidst wrongs.
I will finish my ramblings with this.
The needs of the many overwrites the wants of the few. The GM team can only cater to the many, and I don't envision them being realistically able to cater to the wants of everybody in the server. They must make a choice; to observe roleplays and moderate them, or not to do so and take a reactive stance to happenings, acting only when a complaint had been made. Personally, I don't want to wait till I am stabbed or robbed before the police comes and save me. The GM team and the server policy as a whole have made a choice, so abide by it.
There is no point harming the fragile foundations of this server anymore than necessary, or causing a raging forest fire out of your own personal needs for unwarranted justice, or compromising everybody else for yourself.
There are GMs. And then there are players. I don't see why we are making GMs incapable of playing.
Are you committing some sort of martyrdom for love?
Thank you very much for your time and attention if you actually read through my ramblings. Have a joyous and merry 2011 and I wish you a great day!
Yours sincerely,
Zarquon
02-22-2011, 08:44 AM
flammos200 Wrote:And I shall give a Real Life example: You(Player) and the Police(GMs). You are able to be in your home(Private RP) unrestricted. Anyone that is not you must legally ask permission to be in your home, in order to be there. You accept one other person.
Thus, you and the other person do quiet, but wacky things(RP), not breaking any laws inside your home. For instance, you dismantle TVs to see what's inside, and work on researching cutting-edge electronics based off formulae gained from mushroom fibre.(Have a costume party)
Then the Police come knocking. Knock-Knock-Knock. You open the door, and step outside of your home to talk to them. They cannot enter your home without your permission or a Warrant. You are to be presented with the Warrant before they enter your home, thereby letting you know that they have the legal right to do so. Why? Because they are subject to the same laws that you are. They cannot break into your home any more than you can break into another Person's. (In an ideal world)
Similarly, a Player that wishes to observe another's RP is allowed to ask permission to do so. If that permission is granted, they may watch. If not... Well, they've still got other people to spy on if they wanted to. (Once more, how things should be treated.)
Why would the GMs be exhempt from this? Even in Real Life, you at least let a person know that you have a Warrant and present the thing to them, before entering their home and seeing their most private of places. (Spying on someone without telling them. Much less asking for permission.)
And then you lie to them, telling them something to the lines of... 'Eh, it was a mistake. We got a tip about someone holding a drug den in here, and that's why we kicked down the door and barged in, rummaging through your stuff and watching you eat.
Oh, you had a weak heart and had a cardiac arrest when we broke into your home? Too bad.' (Lost the will to RP. Especially whilst being spied on by people who won't reveal their motives.)
And after leaving, at the Precinct: 'So, did you see that chick's place, man?'
'Yeah, totally. She had her unmentionables strewn all over the place.'
And the Police proceed to laugh.
This analogy is flawed, because you are not in your own private home. A closer analogy would be that you stepped into Kretol's house, then went into another room with someone to have a private conversation...then got indignant when Kretol or someone else living in said home checked to see what you, the guest, were doing.
Of course, this whole analogy is silly anyway. If you're engaging in something so scandalously private that you don't want anyone seeing it, why exactly are you not putting this in party chat? That's how we handle ERP, so it's hardly a new concept.
Now, again, I'm not defending mocking people on Vent, though that happens and there is little anyone can do about it. But if you're going to get up in arms about GMs being able to go invisible and watch RP, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. Also, this serves as a good point about an area needing improvement on the part of the *playerbase*. Seriously, people have specific complaints about specific GMs, but *no one* tells the administration that can actually do something about it.